Crosswords2 mins ago
What does God do?
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Apparently we can't blame God for the ills of this world and we must be grateful to him for the good in the world- but I don't see him doing anything at all - so what does he actually 'do'?
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^^To begin with, Ashkenazi Jews Since 1950, have gained 29% of the Nobel Prizes even though they represent only 0.25% of humanity. Ashkenazim achievement in this arena is 117 times greater than their population. One can continue with chess grand masters, prestigious positions on university faculties etc. all way beyond their proportion of population.
Hello Naomi , this is another one of your open-ended philosophical questions which offers wide ranging answers . We'll probably all answer it subjectively , so we'll probably all end up disagreeing with each other , but here goes :
God sustains life . It's not as simple as it sounds . Here on earth the temperature is sustained within certain levels which can support life .In the universe you have vast temperature ranges form "absolute zero "-273 c , to thousands of degrees inside stars . On earth we are fortunate enough to have large parts of the earth within that narrow "life - sustaining " temperature band . It stays that way because of the earth's rotation and weather systems . One side doesn't roast and the other side doesn't freeze . The earth's atmosphere sustains life . The earth's rotation and its atmosphere and its oceans produce the weather systems and the rains which sustain life on the earth . It keeps the temperature within life-sustaining levels . It rinses away impurities in the atmosphere and on land when they become polluted .Thus the earth is able to "cleanse" itself . The life forms on the earth are all interdependent - an eco-system . Insects "cleanse" dead material and thrive , plants grow on soil and "manure" and thrive , they take out excess CO2 and produce oxygen for animals to thrive , animals eat plants (and other animals) and thrive . It's all an equilibrium system , it all interlocks , and if the equilibrium tilts too far one way then the life forms (especially plants , insects and microbes ) along with the earth's atmosphere and weather systems tilt it back the other way , cleansing the earth and restoring the equilibrium . Life is sustained and life goes on .It has been doing this long before human beings arrived .
What holds all of this incredible equilibrium system in place - the earth's rotation , the weather system , the eco system and so on - and all of it within this narrow temperature range that can be survived ? Is it pure co-incidence ?
In my mind it can't be . It has to be God . God sustains life .
That's my answer . I'm sure people with better scientific knowledge than me will shoot holes through it , so fire away...
God sustains life . It's not as simple as it sounds . Here on earth the temperature is sustained within certain levels which can support life .In the universe you have vast temperature ranges form "absolute zero "-273 c , to thousands of degrees inside stars . On earth we are fortunate enough to have large parts of the earth within that narrow "life - sustaining " temperature band . It stays that way because of the earth's rotation and weather systems . One side doesn't roast and the other side doesn't freeze . The earth's atmosphere sustains life . The earth's rotation and its atmosphere and its oceans produce the weather systems and the rains which sustain life on the earth . It keeps the temperature within life-sustaining levels . It rinses away impurities in the atmosphere and on land when they become polluted .Thus the earth is able to "cleanse" itself . The life forms on the earth are all interdependent - an eco-system . Insects "cleanse" dead material and thrive , plants grow on soil and "manure" and thrive , they take out excess CO2 and produce oxygen for animals to thrive , animals eat plants (and other animals) and thrive . It's all an equilibrium system , it all interlocks , and if the equilibrium tilts too far one way then the life forms (especially plants , insects and microbes ) along with the earth's atmosphere and weather systems tilt it back the other way , cleansing the earth and restoring the equilibrium . Life is sustained and life goes on .It has been doing this long before human beings arrived .
What holds all of this incredible equilibrium system in place - the earth's rotation , the weather system , the eco system and so on - and all of it within this narrow temperature range that can be survived ? Is it pure co-incidence ?
In my mind it can't be . It has to be God . God sustains life .
That's my answer . I'm sure people with better scientific knowledge than me will shoot holes through it , so fire away...
This is the argument from "fine tuning", Argorstran. But most of the solar system can’t support life. What are we to deduce from that? Many parts of the earth itself are inimical to life: the fine tuning you think you observe doesn’t seem to have been applied to the tectonic plates, for example. If the (partial ) fine tuning is evidence for a god might you not conclude from the dissonance in other parts of his creation that this creator god is not a perfect being, but, perhaps, an apprentice deity who’s just learning his trade? Or a superannuated one who’s simply past it?
@Khandro.
So, your argument would appear to be this; Jewish people are religious. A study has shown that a cohort of Jewish people have, on average, a higher IQ. Therefore high IQ means a belief in god, in religion, in all the trappings of religion? Is this your argument?
@Argostran.
Vetuste has already answered your argument, I think. Many eminent scientists have pointed out that the laws of science contain many fundamental numbers which have to be as they are for life as we understand it to flourish - but to assume that this is evidence of an Intelligent Designer "fine-tuning" the universe would be mistaken, an anthropocentric conceit. Rather,we are as we are - life, as we understand it, is as it is - because of those laws governing the universe; Those fundamental constants formed the bedrock upon which evolution is based.
So, your argument would appear to be this; Jewish people are religious. A study has shown that a cohort of Jewish people have, on average, a higher IQ. Therefore high IQ means a belief in god, in religion, in all the trappings of religion? Is this your argument?
@Argostran.
Vetuste has already answered your argument, I think. Many eminent scientists have pointed out that the laws of science contain many fundamental numbers which have to be as they are for life as we understand it to flourish - but to assume that this is evidence of an Intelligent Designer "fine-tuning" the universe would be mistaken, an anthropocentric conceit. Rather,we are as we are - life, as we understand it, is as it is - because of those laws governing the universe; Those fundamental constants formed the bedrock upon which evolution is based.
LG
//So, your argument would appear to be this; Jewish people are religious. A study has shown that a cohort of Jewish people have, on average, a higher IQ. Therefore high IQ means a belief in god, in religion, in all the trappings of religion? Is this your argument?// No. Though Ashkenazi Jews - as a grouping- have the highest intelligence, it does not mean that among them there are no idiots - atheists on R&S do not have that exclusive monopoly :-)
//So, your argument would appear to be this; Jewish people are religious. A study has shown that a cohort of Jewish people have, on average, a higher IQ. Therefore high IQ means a belief in god, in religion, in all the trappings of religion? Is this your argument?// No. Though Ashkenazi Jews - as a grouping- have the highest intelligence, it does not mean that among them there are no idiots - atheists on R&S do not have that exclusive monopoly :-)
Vetuste ennemi and lazygun - those are two very interesting answers.
Do I conclude that its an apprentice deity or one who's past it ? - I wouldn't know - it may well be ! - but for me there has to be a deity of some kind there .
I don't know what the scientific calculations or probabilities are but I just can't see this happening by coincidence or randomly .
Anthropocentric - maybe , but its the roles of insects and plants in cleaning up the "mess" of corpses and waste matter and purifying the atmosphere that fascinates me as much as anything else .
A couple of summers ago I was looking up at the sky wondering if there was a superior life form to human beings when I noticed something . It was in the upwards direction but rather closer than the sky . There were wasps flying in and out of the roof - I had a wasps nest ! after initially being horrified I decided to let nature take its course and it was fascinating to watch these magnificent creatures at work over the course of the summer . It opened my eyes to the insect world and how incredibly intelligent they are . I've probably moved "off topic" now , but that tends to happen with these questions...
Do I conclude that its an apprentice deity or one who's past it ? - I wouldn't know - it may well be ! - but for me there has to be a deity of some kind there .
I don't know what the scientific calculations or probabilities are but I just can't see this happening by coincidence or randomly .
Anthropocentric - maybe , but its the roles of insects and plants in cleaning up the "mess" of corpses and waste matter and purifying the atmosphere that fascinates me as much as anything else .
A couple of summers ago I was looking up at the sky wondering if there was a superior life form to human beings when I noticed something . It was in the upwards direction but rather closer than the sky . There were wasps flying in and out of the roof - I had a wasps nest ! after initially being horrified I decided to let nature take its course and it was fascinating to watch these magnificent creatures at work over the course of the summer . It opened my eyes to the insect world and how incredibly intelligent they are . I've probably moved "off topic" now , but that tends to happen with these questions...
Khandro, So much for 'ad nauseam'. You say you’ve answered my question, but unless you think the Jews are, indeed, the chosen people, and have been awarded special privileges, you haven’t.
argorstran, //but for me there has to be a deity of some kind there .//
LG and VE have dealt more than adequately with your initial post, but with that comment you have hit the nail very firmly on the head. Some kind of deity is not necessarily the God of Abraham – he who is commonly considered to be a personal God that intercedes into people’s lives – and, from what I can see, doesn’t.
argorstran, //but for me there has to be a deity of some kind there .//
LG and VE have dealt more than adequately with your initial post, but with that comment you have hit the nail very firmly on the head. Some kind of deity is not necessarily the God of Abraham – he who is commonly considered to be a personal God that intercedes into people’s lives – and, from what I can see, doesn’t.
No, I do not have anything to say about the question. Because it all has been said so many time. Did I say going round and round in circles? I did, and I do not want to go in circles as I have a very satisfying peace of mind. You carry on, and I know you will. Because you do not have a choice as I said in my first post.
naomi; 'ad nauseam' yes, and tiresome too, - do you not have anything positive to assert? Your question has been adequately answered, I said, "It depends where you are coming from", and I gave one of many possible examples, (Yom Kippur, this week), If you are Jewish, that's what God does, don't you get it?
@Khandro
You still haven't explained what you mean by this statement you made;
"Of course if you are not Jewish you may well believe differently, but it seems pretty potent stuff - and before you dismiss it, pause to consider that the Jewish race are proportionately the most intellige people on earth"
What does the intelligence of the jewish race have to do with your proposition?
You still haven't explained what you mean by this statement you made;
"Of course if you are not Jewish you may well believe differently, but it seems pretty potent stuff - and before you dismiss it, pause to consider that the Jewish race are proportionately the most intellige people on earth"
What does the intelligence of the jewish race have to do with your proposition?
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