ChatterBank1 min ago
What is the Real Life?
52 Answers
Would you let yourself starve to death? Poison yourself? Challenge someone to a duel from which neither of you could hope to survive?
“No,” you say, “I’m not crazy.”
What, then, do you think of a world economic and social system that lets good food rot while millions starve? Or what do you think of nations that pollute earth’s environment while arming themselves for nuclear war?
A decade ago the vogue was to blame society or the establishment for the world’s insane conduct.
But the Bible points of a detailed description of what conditions will be like on earth at the time God will intervene. It says clearly that a number of outstanding things will be seen by people and that the very generation that sees this ‘sign’ will also see the end of wickedness and the start of a peaceful new world. So you can judge for yourself and see if you too can see these things happening? Because even a child can understand it.
“No,” you say, “I’m not crazy.”
What, then, do you think of a world economic and social system that lets good food rot while millions starve? Or what do you think of nations that pollute earth’s environment while arming themselves for nuclear war?
A decade ago the vogue was to blame society or the establishment for the world’s insane conduct.
But the Bible points of a detailed description of what conditions will be like on earth at the time God will intervene. It says clearly that a number of outstanding things will be seen by people and that the very generation that sees this ‘sign’ will also see the end of wickedness and the start of a peaceful new world. So you can judge for yourself and see if you too can see these things happening? Because even a child can understand it.
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If we make the dubious agreement to assume a God purely for the sake of discussion and a further dubious agreement to assume a paradise and associated "stuff" then:
If a God is omnipotent and thus is able to foreknow everything, then it is inevitably able to know what the result of what telling its creation to do, or to not do something, will be. In fact since it is its creation, it has total responsibility for the result; and given the omnipotence bit it would have to be the result that was desired.
Likewise the result of life in paradise was also known and had to be the desired result to have opted to kick it off in the first place.
In this case your conclusion that such an entity is responsible has to be correct.
The scripture you refer to may be wrong, and thus adds little or nothing to the discussion. If one can not work things out from first principles then trusting some other creation's unsubstantiated claims, is unhelpful.
But even if that scripture had truth it merely indicates there is something wrong with assumptions made so far. Either this God is fallible after all as the result was apparently not the desired one, even though it was the inevitable one as foreknowledge dictated. Or our understanding of good and evil is muddled that we can not assign these labels correctly.
It seems there is something fundamentally wrong somewhere with this picture of an omnipotent God after all.
If a God is omnipotent and thus is able to foreknow everything, then it is inevitably able to know what the result of what telling its creation to do, or to not do something, will be. In fact since it is its creation, it has total responsibility for the result; and given the omnipotence bit it would have to be the result that was desired.
Likewise the result of life in paradise was also known and had to be the desired result to have opted to kick it off in the first place.
In this case your conclusion that such an entity is responsible has to be correct.
The scripture you refer to may be wrong, and thus adds little or nothing to the discussion. If one can not work things out from first principles then trusting some other creation's unsubstantiated claims, is unhelpful.
But even if that scripture had truth it merely indicates there is something wrong with assumptions made so far. Either this God is fallible after all as the result was apparently not the desired one, even though it was the inevitable one as foreknowledge dictated. Or our understanding of good and evil is muddled that we can not assign these labels correctly.
It seems there is something fundamentally wrong somewhere with this picture of an omnipotent God after all.
. . . or:
The assumption on which all that follows is based is what should be brought into question. Faith is the monster from which one should be seeking salvation.
It is not the failure of reason to provide answers that leads one to abandon it. It is a failure to understand and adhere to the process that leads to ones refusal to accept the conclusions they've reached having wandered aimlessly down blind alleys to either one of only two possible destinations, the vicious circle or the dead end.
The assumption on which all that follows is based is what should be brought into question. Faith is the monster from which one should be seeking salvation.
It is not the failure of reason to provide answers that leads one to abandon it. It is a failure to understand and adhere to the process that leads to ones refusal to accept the conclusions they've reached having wandered aimlessly down blind alleys to either one of only two possible destinations, the vicious circle or the dead end.
VE, //Couldn't agree more, Goodlife. Smarten up, Naomi!//
Crikey! You’re right VE! Must try harder! Here goes!
Goodlife, //did he [God] know that their wonderful prospect of life in a paradise was doomed to failure? Of course not.—Genesis 1:28.
So taken to its logical conclusion, the idea that God foreknows all decisions would mean that he is responsible for all that happens—including wars, injustices, and suffering. No, A clear answer is provided by what God says about himself……….. So you have a brain use it. //
So using my brain, as instructed, we know from the same book of the bible that God is not omnipresent, and now you confirm what we already knew - he is not omniscient - so taking your statement to its logical conclusion, God cannot possibly be omnipotent. Bit of an old fraud really, isn’t he. Is that better?
Crikey! You’re right VE! Must try harder! Here goes!
Goodlife, //did he [God] know that their wonderful prospect of life in a paradise was doomed to failure? Of course not.—Genesis 1:28.
So taken to its logical conclusion, the idea that God foreknows all decisions would mean that he is responsible for all that happens—including wars, injustices, and suffering. No, A clear answer is provided by what God says about himself……….. So you have a brain use it. //
So using my brain, as instructed, we know from the same book of the bible that God is not omnipresent, and now you confirm what we already knew - he is not omniscient - so taking your statement to its logical conclusion, God cannot possibly be omnipotent. Bit of an old fraud really, isn’t he. Is that better?
Goodlife, come on! Is that fair? It was you who suggested taking it to its logical conclusion – and when, upon VE’s admonishment, I did, you cry ‘foul’. You said yourself that God didn’t know what would happen, thereby disproving his reputed omniscience, and we know from reading the book that he was obliged to search for people who hid themselves from him, thereby disproving both his reputed omniscience and his reputed omnipresence. Therefore, the case for his reputed omnipotence is also be disproven. Try as you may, you can’t have it both ways. He's either the almighty omnipotent God - or he isn't - and it seems he isn't.
your nemesis here again, goodlife.
Still pontificating on the Watchtower are we? And I thought you had picked up a semblance of independence.
Shame.
http://
Still pontificating on the Watchtower are we? And I thought you had picked up a semblance of independence.
Shame.
http://
