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God Is Good
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God is not good, from what I can see he's a sadist. Please help me to understand how God can kill children en masse ?
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I'm an atheist. God did not kill those children (why do you say this?). It was done by a very disturbed young man who had access to very sophisticated and dangerous weapons because his mother had some crazy ideas about the world ending or something along those lines and because the crazy gun laws in America allowed her to accumulate weapons and ammunition.
Who can best answer the questions about God’s permission of wickedness? Well, if you were charged with some fault, would you want people to listen to only what others said about it? Or would you want to speak for yourself to clear up the matter in the mind of anyone who sincerely wanted to know? It is God who is held to be at fault for permitting wickedness. Since he best knows why he permits it, would it not be fair to let him speak for himself? because Looking to man for answers will never be satisfying, (2 Timothy 3:16)
Reality is not the issue, vascop, it's a question about how a God that quite a few folk believe to be a real entity could allow such wickedness to happen.
For me, David Hume put it best:
"Is he willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?"
Have you seen these people posting pictures of t-shirts saying the following?
Dear God,
Why do you allow so much violence in our schools?
Signed,
a concerned student
Dear Concerned Student,
I'm not allowed in schools.
God
Really? God is prevented from stopping the massacre of six year olds by a human decree? I'm not sure they really wanted to imply that.
For me, David Hume put it best:
"Is he willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?"
Have you seen these people posting pictures of t-shirts saying the following?
Dear God,
Why do you allow so much violence in our schools?
Signed,
a concerned student
Dear Concerned Student,
I'm not allowed in schools.
God
Really? God is prevented from stopping the massacre of six year olds by a human decree? I'm not sure they really wanted to imply that.
God sits and watches with tears in his eyes at all the wickedness in the world. However when we have shown catagoricaly that we are incapable of governing ourselves he will send the four horsemen of the apocolyps to destry those that do not wish to be a part of the new kingdom and restore all the 'good' people (ie those that wish to worship him) and they will not be effected by the trauma of there previous lives.
However as an athiest I think that a vast number of people are capable of great atrosoties given the right circumstances. A disturbed person has nature and nurture to thank. Nature because (I think at any rate) the synapses and chemical compounds in their brains are squed and nurture because family background and how they are treated (not just in their formative years) can tip the ballance.
Sorry about the rubbish spelling :(
However as an athiest I think that a vast number of people are capable of great atrosoties given the right circumstances. A disturbed person has nature and nurture to thank. Nature because (I think at any rate) the synapses and chemical compounds in their brains are squed and nurture because family background and how they are treated (not just in their formative years) can tip the ballance.
Sorry about the rubbish spelling :(
What's this got to do with God? This from Greek philosopher Epicurus:
1. if God is unable to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent
2. if God is not willing to prevent evil, he is not good
3. if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?
Hello again Goodlife, //Since he [God] best knows why he permits it, would it not be fair to let him speak for himself? //
Oh that he would - but the last time he spoke (allegedly) was 2000 years ago, so best not hold our breath.
1. if God is unable to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent
2. if God is not willing to prevent evil, he is not good
3. if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?
Hello again Goodlife, //Since he [God] best knows why he permits it, would it not be fair to let him speak for himself? //
Oh that he would - but the last time he spoke (allegedly) was 2000 years ago, so best not hold our breath.
goodlifes usual banal attempted defence of god aside, for those who do believe in a benevolent god, examples of senseless killing like the one that has just occurred must be difficult to reconcile with their faith in this avuncular entity.
Most answers from the faithful will offer platitudes - "its not gods fault, it is imperfect humans", or "god gave us free will, its up to us what to do with it." Others will offer some sort of karmic balance answer - "sometimes bad things happen to good people, but it will all balance out in the end." All these answers are unsatisfactory, and to me represent a more fundamental point, which is that god is a man made construct, born out of fear and imagination, lingering on through hidebound tradition and irrational faith.
For me, vascops answer pretty much sums it up exactly. No god, just a combination of tragic circumstances and an extremely unstable young man trying to achieve who knows what with a barrage of bullets from a high powered, rapid firing high capacity weapon, resulting in the slaughter of the innocents.
Epicurus was probably right.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Most answers from the faithful will offer platitudes - "its not gods fault, it is imperfect humans", or "god gave us free will, its up to us what to do with it." Others will offer some sort of karmic balance answer - "sometimes bad things happen to good people, but it will all balance out in the end." All these answers are unsatisfactory, and to me represent a more fundamental point, which is that god is a man made construct, born out of fear and imagination, lingering on through hidebound tradition and irrational faith.
For me, vascops answer pretty much sums it up exactly. No god, just a combination of tragic circumstances and an extremely unstable young man trying to achieve who knows what with a barrage of bullets from a high powered, rapid firing high capacity weapon, resulting in the slaughter of the innocents.
Epicurus was probably right.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
True Christians know that what most people have learned about God and the Bible consists of false doctrines and corruptions of the Bible’s teachings. all You may have not noticed that most people, even churchgoers who claim to worship God, are not inclined to speak of him or his purposes.
So is it wrong to ask why God allows suffering? Some worry that asking such a question means that they do not have enough faith or that they are showing disrespect for God.
So when reading the Bible, however, you will find that faithful, God-fearing people had similar questions. For example, the prophet Habakkuk asked Jehovah: “Why is it that you make me see what is hurtful, and you keep looking upon mere trouble? And why are despoiling and violence in front of me, and why does quarreling occur, and why is strife carried? Habakkuk 1:3.
So is it wrong to ask why God allows suffering? Some worry that asking such a question means that they do not have enough faith or that they are showing disrespect for God.
So when reading the Bible, however, you will find that faithful, God-fearing people had similar questions. For example, the prophet Habakkuk asked Jehovah: “Why is it that you make me see what is hurtful, and you keep looking upon mere trouble? And why are despoiling and violence in front of me, and why does quarreling occur, and why is strife carried? Habakkuk 1:3.
One should beware of applying what seems good and bad from a mortal point of view to a deity that has a view of the bigger picture.
I have no evidence of a God calling children back to it en masse; and interfering with what its creations do may possibly destroy whatever it was it created them for in the first place.
I have no evidence of a God calling children back to it en masse; and interfering with what its creations do may possibly destroy whatever it was it created them for in the first place.
