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Is God Cruel?
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Is God really to blame for such suffering?
According to investigators, evidence was found in the wreckage that pointed to sabotage by a terrorist bomb. When men fight against one another to further their own selfish interests, should God be held responsible for the harm it may bring to others? No! It should be expected that humans would not be immune to the consequences of what they do. The apostle Paul wrote: “Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.” What is more, regarding the innocent victims of the cruel and irresponsible actions of others, says that “time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.” Thus, a person may get hurt or even lose his life, not because God wants man to suffer but because, by chance, he is in the wrong place at the critical time.
Ecclesiastes 9:11( Galatians 6:7) Genesis 18:25)
If it were true that God causes children to die because he needs more angels in heaven, it would imply that he is unfeeling, even cruel. The Bible says otherwise. A compassionate father would not snatch a child away from its parents just so that he could enlarge his own family. Yet, no human parent has more compassion than GOD , whose dominant quality is love. His great love would never permit him to act in such a harsh way. (Job 34:10) (1 John 4:8) (ROMES.9.14-18)
According to investigators, evidence was found in the wreckage that pointed to sabotage by a terrorist bomb. When men fight against one another to further their own selfish interests, should God be held responsible for the harm it may bring to others? No! It should be expected that humans would not be immune to the consequences of what they do. The apostle Paul wrote: “Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.” What is more, regarding the innocent victims of the cruel and irresponsible actions of others, says that “time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.” Thus, a person may get hurt or even lose his life, not because God wants man to suffer but because, by chance, he is in the wrong place at the critical time.
Ecclesiastes 9:11( Galatians 6:7) Genesis 18:25)
If it were true that God causes children to die because he needs more angels in heaven, it would imply that he is unfeeling, even cruel. The Bible says otherwise. A compassionate father would not snatch a child away from its parents just so that he could enlarge his own family. Yet, no human parent has more compassion than GOD , whose dominant quality is love. His great love would never permit him to act in such a harsh way. (Job 34:10) (1 John 4:8) (ROMES.9.14-18)
Answers
//maybe we shouldn't spend too much time or energy analysing it?//
Analysis is imperative. Read on…..
//the Bible is packed with hyperbole about how amazing and fearsome and all powerful he is//
There are a few bits, not widely taught, that quite bizarrely belie that claim, not least this:
“And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” Judges 1:19
Nescafé went off the boil when Bigbucks offered a 'get out of death' loyalty card in exchange for sycophancy.
Analysis is imperative. Read on…..
//the Bible is packed with hyperbole about how amazing and fearsome and all powerful he is//
There are a few bits, not widely taught, that quite bizarrely belie that claim, not least this:
“And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” Judges 1:19
Nescafé went off the boil when Bigbucks offered a 'get out of death' loyalty card in exchange for sycophancy.
God is not cruel and does not bring pain and suffering.
Man is cruel because he is under the influence of the God of this world.
2 Cor. 4 v 4 "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan’s capabilities.
However, when the Bible says that Satan is the "god of this world," it is not saying that he has ultimate authority. It is conveying the idea that Satan rules over the unbelieving world in a specific way.
Man is cruel because he is under the influence of the God of this world.
2 Cor. 4 v 4 "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan’s capabilities.
However, when the Bible says that Satan is the "god of this world," it is not saying that he has ultimate authority. It is conveying the idea that Satan rules over the unbelieving world in a specific way.
Locusts, //A compassionate father would not snatch a child away from its parents just so that he could enlarge his own family. //
very good naomi24 ..yes a loving God would not do such a thing
naomi24 .No, a compassionate father wouldn't do that - so why did your God create the evil that is cancer that so many, including little children, fall foul of?
Locusts, // Did a loving god create the cancer of in the evil world ??
a theft is not a theft unit he steals
or a murder is not a murder unit he murderess
so the one we call satin was perfect ,when he was created
unit. unit he decided to go his on way
he .he decided to go bad
very good naomi24 ..yes a loving God would not do such a thing
naomi24 .No, a compassionate father wouldn't do that - so why did your God create the evil that is cancer that so many, including little children, fall foul of?
Locusts, // Did a loving god create the cancer of in the evil world ??
a theft is not a theft unit he steals
or a murder is not a murder unit he murderess
so the one we call satin was perfect ,when he was created
unit. unit he decided to go his on way
he .he decided to go bad
Naomi@ God did not create cancer, nor any of the diseases we have. It is all the result of man's rebellion back in the Garden of Eden. Had Adam not rebelled against the direction given by God, then we would not be here today suffering from disease, old age, famines, wars, etc. etc.
As to using scripture, as a Christian I consider the Bible as the "Guide book to life". Many of the principles set out do help us in our day to day lives.
For example, in the Book of Proverbs 3 v 27-31
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due,
when it is in your power to act.
28 Do not say to your neighbor,
“Come back tomorrow and I’ll give it to you”—
when you already have it with you.
29 Do not plot harm against your neighbor,
who lives trustfully near you.
30 Do not accuse anyone for no reason—
when they have done you no harm.
31 Do not envy the violent
or choose any of their ways.
Do not withhold good from those who deserve it when it is in your power to act. The NT contains many exhortations to kindness, charity, and hospitality.
Do not say to your neighbour "come back later I'll give it tomorrow".This counsels the speedy fulfillment of one's obligations.
Do not plot harm against your neighbour: The verb "kharash" means "to cut in; to engrave; to plough; to devise." The idea of plotting is metaphorical for working, practicing or fabricating.
Do not accuse a man for no reason: The word most reasonably signifies a legal accusation, a formal complaint before witnesses and authorities.
Do not envy a violent man or choose any of his ways: Envy may carry the connotation of "imitating" as well. The word "violent" refers to physical violence, social injustice, harsh treatment, wild ruthlessness, injurious words, hatred, and general rudeness.
This is just an example, there are many many more.
As to using scripture, as a Christian I consider the Bible as the "Guide book to life". Many of the principles set out do help us in our day to day lives.
For example, in the Book of Proverbs 3 v 27-31
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due,
when it is in your power to act.
28 Do not say to your neighbor,
“Come back tomorrow and I’ll give it to you”—
when you already have it with you.
29 Do not plot harm against your neighbor,
who lives trustfully near you.
30 Do not accuse anyone for no reason—
when they have done you no harm.
31 Do not envy the violent
or choose any of their ways.
Do not withhold good from those who deserve it when it is in your power to act. The NT contains many exhortations to kindness, charity, and hospitality.
Do not say to your neighbour "come back later I'll give it tomorrow".This counsels the speedy fulfillment of one's obligations.
Do not plot harm against your neighbour: The verb "kharash" means "to cut in; to engrave; to plough; to devise." The idea of plotting is metaphorical for working, practicing or fabricating.
Do not accuse a man for no reason: The word most reasonably signifies a legal accusation, a formal complaint before witnesses and authorities.
Do not envy a violent man or choose any of his ways: Envy may carry the connotation of "imitating" as well. The word "violent" refers to physical violence, social injustice, harsh treatment, wild ruthlessness, injurious words, hatred, and general rudeness.
This is just an example, there are many many more.
Jomifl//try hard enough and you can extract any meaning you like from the bible//
1 Corinthians 3 v 11 - 13
For what human being knows what is truly human except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehends what is truly God’s except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual.
When reading the Bible, you need to consider the immediate context of the scripture in question. If you cannot understand a scripture even after you have considered its context you have to compare it with other scriptures, having in mind the overall theme of the Bible.
1 Corinthians 3 v 11 - 13
For what human being knows what is truly human except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehends what is truly God’s except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual.
When reading the Bible, you need to consider the immediate context of the scripture in question. If you cannot understand a scripture even after you have considered its context you have to compare it with other scriptures, having in mind the overall theme of the Bible.
If God truly had foreknown that this perfect couple would sin, what would this imply? Such a notion would attribute many negative traits to God.
He would seem to be unloving, unjust, and insincere. Some might label it cruel to expose the first humans to something that was foreknown to end badly.
God might seem responsible for—or at least an accomplice to—all the badness and suffering that followed on earth today.
So to atheist some believers, our Creator would even appear foolish.
That is why as revealed in the Scriptures, match such a negative description? And to answer that you have to examine what the Bible says. (Proverbs 19:22)
He would seem to be unloving, unjust, and insincere. Some might label it cruel to expose the first humans to something that was foreknown to end badly.
God might seem responsible for—or at least an accomplice to—all the badness and suffering that followed on earth today.
So to atheist some believers, our Creator would even appear foolish.
That is why as revealed in the Scriptures, match such a negative description? And to answer that you have to examine what the Bible says. (Proverbs 19:22)
Locusts you are quite right that Paul writes - as a man sows so shall he reap - Galatians 6: 7. The whole lot is:
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not
and as another ABer is not exactly clear - the Gist is; be good or go to Hell
which could beused to back up the idea that God IS cruel to those he doesnt like ( gays, blacks, and the usual other)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not
and as another ABer is not exactly clear - the Gist is; be good or go to Hell
which could beused to back up the idea that God IS cruel to those he doesnt like ( gays, blacks, and the usual other)
Goodlife - dam,ed by the words from your own mouth - clearly NOT the words of God...
Quite right if you suppose pre-determination as you do above - then you get into difficulties almost immediately with free will. as you have see above
Most Christian denominations do NOT therefore have pre-determination but Do have free will - erm we have a choice .
[and we have a choice - then free will obviously wins....that could Lob's theorem]
Muslims DO have pre-determination and are left with gob smakcing conclusions like - if all those children didnt die in the Syrian gas attack then they all would have died in that instant anyway.
Quite right if you suppose pre-determination as you do above - then you get into difficulties almost immediately with free will. as you have see above
Most Christian denominations do NOT therefore have pre-determination but Do have free will - erm we have a choice .
[and we have a choice - then free will obviously wins....that could Lob's theorem]
Muslims DO have pre-determination and are left with gob smakcing conclusions like - if all those children didnt die in the Syrian gas attack then they all would have died in that instant anyway.
PeterP@
I don't quite see what you are saying to GL. You indicate that he is saying God knew what was going to happen with Adam & Eve. Yet when I read it I see that what he is saying in fact, is that IF God had known what the first human couple would do, THEN it would indicate that God is cruel, is unloving, unkind and unjust.
The doctrine of predestination requires that the final destiny of individuals be inflexibly ordained from before the time of Adam and Eve; but there is no evidence. We were all created with free will. God warned the first couple as to what would happen if they chose to go their own way. Why bother give a warning if he knew they were going to eat of the tree and die anyway? Why bother creating them at all?
I don't quite see what you are saying to GL. You indicate that he is saying God knew what was going to happen with Adam & Eve. Yet when I read it I see that what he is saying in fact, is that IF God had known what the first human couple would do, THEN it would indicate that God is cruel, is unloving, unkind and unjust.
The doctrine of predestination requires that the final destiny of individuals be inflexibly ordained from before the time of Adam and Eve; but there is no evidence. We were all created with free will. God warned the first couple as to what would happen if they chose to go their own way. Why bother give a warning if he knew they were going to eat of the tree and die anyway? Why bother creating them at all?
idiosyncrasy, //God did not create cancer, nor any of the diseases we have. It is all the result of man's rebellion back in the Garden of Eden. Had Adam not rebelled against the direction given by God, then we would not be here today suffering from disease, old age, famines, wars, etc. etc.//
Nonsense! From the point of view of religion, God made the rules, man broke the rules, and God decided upon the punishment. Man didn’t create disease.
Nonsense! From the point of view of religion, God made the rules, man broke the rules, and God decided upon the punishment. Man didn’t create disease.
Goodlife, //If God truly had foreknown that this perfect couple would sin, what would this imply? Such a notion would attribute many negative traits to God.// …..
…and …
…..idiosyncrasy, //You indicate that he is saying God knew what was going to happen with Adam & Eve. Yet when I read it I see that what he is saying in fact, is that IF God had known what the first human couple would do, THEN it would indicate that God is cruel, is unloving, unkind and unjust.//
But he’s omniscient – allegedly – he must have known – and therefore many negative traits must be attributed to him, and he is cruel, unloving, unkind, and unjust. Where is the kindness or the justification in condemning the whole of humanity for the failings of just two people? That would be like hanging you two for murders you didn’t commit. Is that justice? Rationally, there’s no way that you people can get your God off the hook – so you go for the irrational. Sorry, but God is guilty as charged!
…and …
…..idiosyncrasy, //You indicate that he is saying God knew what was going to happen with Adam & Eve. Yet when I read it I see that what he is saying in fact, is that IF God had known what the first human couple would do, THEN it would indicate that God is cruel, is unloving, unkind and unjust.//
But he’s omniscient – allegedly – he must have known – and therefore many negative traits must be attributed to him, and he is cruel, unloving, unkind, and unjust. Where is the kindness or the justification in condemning the whole of humanity for the failings of just two people? That would be like hanging you two for murders you didn’t commit. Is that justice? Rationally, there’s no way that you people can get your God off the hook – so you go for the irrational. Sorry, but God is guilty as charged!
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naomi24
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Goodlife, //If God truly had foreknown that this perfect couple would sin, what would this imply? Such a notion would attribute many negative traits to God.//
locusts --- naomi24 so you are saying
If ,as parents- you try – trying to bring up child- child in . up in a good and right way .
A characterized by.- proceeding. or in accordance with accepted standards of morality.
Justice -uprightness.- and doing your best to do things a right , in pleasing the child as will.
Then that child- person go out and kills sum one ,
that.s your fault.???
Is that your responsibility for the mistake.
Are you as a parent guilty of the crime
did you know that is person was going to kill -
after you had repeatedly -- the fax’s of life
so parent is guilty as charged! Of killing that person—
when the person or child
had committed the crime,, after that try there hardest ,
of give that child or person a good life
I think that s a Bit off
naomi24
Mark as Best Answer
Goodlife, //If God truly had foreknown that this perfect couple would sin, what would this imply? Such a notion would attribute many negative traits to God.//
locusts --- naomi24 so you are saying
If ,as parents- you try – trying to bring up child- child in . up in a good and right way .
A characterized by.- proceeding. or in accordance with accepted standards of morality.
Justice -uprightness.- and doing your best to do things a right , in pleasing the child as will.
Then that child- person go out and kills sum one ,
that.s your fault.???
Is that your responsibility for the mistake.
Are you as a parent guilty of the crime
did you know that is person was going to kill -
after you had repeatedly -- the fax’s of life
so parent is guilty as charged! Of killing that person—
when the person or child
had committed the crime,, after that try there hardest ,
of give that child or person a good life
I think that s a Bit off
Namoi//But he’s omniscient//
Actually, omniscient is not mentioned in the Bible. If God is omniscient, knowing the past, present and future, then surely things would occur exactly as God has foreseen, which means that he has decreed the course and final destiny of every single human. If that is the case, then how is it we have free will? Able to choose our own life course and decide our own future?
Actually, omniscient is not mentioned in the Bible. If God is omniscient, knowing the past, present and future, then surely things would occur exactly as God has foreseen, which means that he has decreed the course and final destiny of every single human. If that is the case, then how is it we have free will? Able to choose our own life course and decide our own future?
Naomi @Exactly what is sin? The truth is, many do know anymore, do you.
Some say of the “seven deadly sins”: pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy and sloth.
Today, these traits seem commonplace. Pride is encouraged in such things as national pride or racial pride.
It is hard to see how the consumer societies in many wealthy countries could continue without a measure of covetousness, envy and gluttony among the populace. Adultery, homosexuality and fornication—varieties of lust—are tolerated or encouraged, even by some religious leaders.
So much confusion in the mind of some,are you one naomi.
And yet the Bible warns us: Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.”—Gal. 6:7.
Some say of the “seven deadly sins”: pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy and sloth.
Today, these traits seem commonplace. Pride is encouraged in such things as national pride or racial pride.
It is hard to see how the consumer societies in many wealthy countries could continue without a measure of covetousness, envy and gluttony among the populace. Adultery, homosexuality and fornication—varieties of lust—are tolerated or encouraged, even by some religious leaders.
So much confusion in the mind of some,are you one naomi.
And yet the Bible warns us: Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.”—Gal. 6:7.
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