A Philosohical Inversion?

[jomifl]

Believers often accuse atheists of having something missing because they are not interested in believing in deities. The evidence points to the opposite as many believers appear to be searching for something that they cannot find yet most atheists seem to be content with atheism and complete in themselves spiritually.

[atalanta]

There are actually a few atheists out here who feel sorry for religionists who can never throw off the yoke of indoctrination and brain-washing, and bask in the free clean air of logic and reason. It's a wonderful feeling - realising at last that you don't have to struggle any more to make sense of contradictory scriptures, bombastic preachers, control-freaks and merchants of hollow promises. You really can think what you like, think for yourselves, throw off the shackles of ancient bigotry, guilt and threats ! I'd love all religionists to try it, and feel as free as I do !
That's why I reply to the religionists - to try to show them what they are missing !
And "spiritually" doesn't come into it.
What is the definition of "spirituality", anyway, and why do some people think is is so important ?

[grasscarp]

Life here on earth is a brief moment in time. The soul is immortal and lasts forever. Big difference. You live your way and I'll live mine.

[pixie373]

Atalanta, from wiki-

//Traditionally spirituality has been defined as a process of personal transformation in accordance with religious ideals. Since the 19th century spirituality is often separated from religion, and has become more oriented on subjective experience and psychological growth. It may refer to almost any kind of meaningful activity or blissful experience, but without a single, widely-agreed definition.//

[atalanta]

While we're at it, what's a soul ? I've never met one, seen one, heard one, smelled one, or experienced anything to do with one.
I know what a mind is, what a personality is, what a character is - but a soul ?
What makes a soul ? What defines a soul ?
Go on, convince me.

[seadogg]

The earth itself is also here for a brief moment compared with the time span of the Universe. Therefore God must have a cosy bombproof place where the souls of believers may reside for eternity. By definition this Elysium must have existed before homo sapiens came on the scene or more recently Jesus Christ gave us a free pass to it.
On the other hand, since matter cannot be destroyed, we are all immortal

[jomifl]

Grasscarp, there are enough real thing demanding our attentions without us wasting our time chasing ghosts. Surely it is better to rectify real wrongs and do real good that benefits mankind and the planet rather that waste so much effort trying(selfishly) to assure oneself a place in an almost certainly non-existent paradise. As I have said before, at least you won't be disappointed when you don't get there (because you will be dead).

[RATTER15]

grasscarp, //Life here on earth is a brief moment in time. The soul is immortal and lasts forever. Big difference. You live your way and I'll live mine.//

and why do you believe this, what evidence is there to support this theory?

[pixie373]

Yes, there is a point that energy can move on- consciousness can't though. So if your soul lives on, you'll never know about it.

[naomi24]

grasscarp, //I was making a comment on Jomifl's thread, Naomi. It seems to irritate you which is your problem.//

And I was responding to your comment on Jom’s thread, which I think is allowed – but no answer – again. I don’t have a problem, but if you want to irritate me, you have to try much harder because it’s not easy. ;o)

Atalanta, //I know what a mind is, what a personality is, what a character is…/

At the risk of playing Devil’s advocate here, actually, you don’t, and neither does anyone else. I really prefer to thrash all these issues out through civilised and logical debate and it would be nice if we got a bit more of that from the religious contingent instead of this constant petulant victim mentality. If we’re going to talk, let’s do away with the ‘them and us’ mentality – and that goes for all.

Pixie, // there is a point that energy can move on- consciousness can't though.//

A bold statement. Do we know that? I don’t.

[pixie373]

Do we know about consciousness? Yes- by definition, it doesn't exist after you die.

[naomi24]

An assumption.

[pixie373]

It isn't an assumption at all. It is self-explanatory. When you have a general anaesthetic, you are unconscious...ie unaware. What is your reasoning to think you can possibly be conscious once you die?

[naomi24]

It’s only self-explanatory if you consider that your perception of consciousness is what you assume it to be. You could, however, be wrong. Not saying you are - but you could be. I really don't know. 'Horatio', and all that. ;o)

[pixie373]

Lol. I have double-checked the definition just to be sure. I'm happy to go with what's known and proven so far (especially as it also makes sense to me). If awareness exists after you die- by definition, you're not dead, as you'd still exist. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

[venator]

Atheists don't war with other atheists or behead non-atheists. There has never been an atheist crusade or jihad.

So what's missing or wrong with them?

[sandyRoe]

Didn't self-proclaimed atheists occupy much of Eastern Europe for almost 50 years?

[venator]

I'll trot out the old chestnut - In two world wars, the soldiers on each side were told that god was on their side, much as the Shia and Sunni fighters.

What are these deities up to?

[naomi24]

Pixie, In questions such as this, I can’t be doing with ‘definitions’ – but if you’re happy to go with that, fine. For me the jury is still out.

Venator, good point, but cue the Stalin, Pol Pot, etc, etc., brigade. Wrong!! None of ‘them’ did what they did in the name of atheism.

sandyRoe, take note.

[venator]

Sandy - they weren't fighting for religious reasons - it was territory they wanted.

Mind you, Hitler did have some odd quasi religious ideas - the Nietzschean Superman and the Teutonic Knights. I don't think the Kaiser or Napoleon were trying to advance their religion, either...