Question For Keyplus

[nailit]

I honestly dont mean this in any derogatory or offensive way (and I hope other ABers dont turn this into such a thread as its a serious question)
But as a muslim, how would you tackle the issue of muslim extremists killing innocent 'westerners'...Tunisia, 7/7 etc?
What is the general view of muslims concerning these issues?
Thanks in advance and please dont let this question slide into personal attacks.

[wildwood]

There is no denying that other 'western mainstream' religions have had their barbarous periods, but even the Pope is now mellowing the catholic stance on morals in line with changing Society.

There are still other Societies that have unchanged ancient beliefs, but these generally do not injure or offend others.

Islam however, still demands subservient women and segregation from infidels. A perfect excuse for extremists to wreck havoc. A Muslim speaking out against the terrorists is defying their own belief.

[beso]

methyl //Over time extremists have infiltrated every many major religion and carried out atrocities "in the name of" that religion. //

Extremists didn't infiltrate the religions. They were generated from within by the fundamental philosophies of the religion.

Please read the texts. Any objective reading can leave no doubt that violence is a central tenet.

[keyplus90]

First of all I am sorry that I could not respond quickly enough as I did not log in last night. But that was blessing in disguise as since then you have been given information by others who believe they know about Islam. For example, If I were to ask Dieseldick to give me the verse from Quran where it says that a Muslim should not live side by side with the non believers/infidels. Then I am sure he/she would not find it in Quran. Because there is None.

However I have reasons to believe that majority of the people committing these atrocities are not even Muslims but have disguised as one. But I will not go into that unless I am not left with a choice and would just answer your question how to tackle all this. As a Muslim I would say that the only way to tackle this is to act on Islam itself. There are couple of verses from within Quran and are well known to people.

Quran 5:32 where it is said that whosoever kills a human being is as he has killed the whole humanity.

And it does not stop there as the same verse says that “whosoever saves one human being is as he has saved the whole humanity”.

There is not a single (yes single) verse in Quran where killing of a human is mentioned apart from in War and even then it is said that the person who surrenders its not that you should not kill him but also should escort him to safety. Now I ask one question.

“If I were for a minute to believe that all these terrorist groups are what they call themselves then which of the above verse are they acting upon?

Finally, I have no doubt that behind every terrorist group in last 15 plus years are mainly two intelligence agencies, CIA and Mossad. Behind all of the terrorist attacks in Pakistan RAW (Indian agency) is involved and they are helped by CIA and Mossad.

[keyplus90]

nailit - As you asked me a question, I would suggest listening to this 15.50 minutes of speech. Please.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, unless you think the people here have very short memories I don’t know why you posted that video. You’ve said too much in the past for us believe that the King’s words echo your thoughts. He doesn’t even agree with you that intelligence agencies are behind the terrorists’ actions. He concedes that they are founded on a power-crazed sectarian idealism.

[keyplus90]

I will not waste my time on anyone else. I will only reply to nailit as he is the one who, according to him asked a genuine question.

[naomi24]

Then give him a genuine answer.

[Svejk]

Instead of lying.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, //If I were to ask Dieseldick to give me the verse from Quran where it says that a Muslim should not live side by side with the non believers/infidels. Then I am sure he/she would not find it in Quran. Because there is None.//

…… but you haven't mentioned the Koran's advice to Muslims about the perils of befriending non-Muslims. Odd ... the bits you leave out.

[sir.prize]

As i said on an earlier thread

Rubbish from keypus - as usual.

[sir.prize]

Correction:

Rubbish from keyplus - as usual.

[Svejk]

A bit of 'light' reading for you, nailit. (just in case you believed keyplus's taqiyya)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

[vetuste_ennemi]

"Quran 5:32 where it is said that whosoever kills a human being is as he has killed the whole humanity.".
Let's look at the full verse and those following it. Oh, by the way, the two bits cited are actually derived from the Talmud as is suggested in the full text. The stress has been added by me.
"32: It is for this reason that We decreed to the Children of Israel that he who kills a soul neither in revenge for another, NOR TO PREVENT CORRUPTION ON EARTH, it is as if he killed the whole of mankind, whereas he who saves a soul it is as if he has saved the whole of mankind. Our messengers came to them bearing clear proofs, but many of them thereafter were disobedient on earth. 33-34: In truth the punishment for those who make war against God AND His Messenger, and roam the earth corrupting it, is that they be killed, OR crucified, OR have their hand and feet amputated, or be exiled from the land. This would be their shame in the present life, and in the next a terrible torment awaits them - except those who repent before you gain mastery over them. Therefore you must understand that God is All-Forgiving, Compassionate to each".
All this remind you of anything? I think our ISIL friend would justify their acts under the "Prevention of Corruption" clause, don't you? And, as you can see, the methods they employ to punish the corrupters are 100% Koranic.

[nailit]

Thanks for reply keyplus (and others).
The few muslims ive known personally over the years certainly havnt been of the 'radicalised' variety and definitly not terrorists. I am well aware that every belief system on earth (religious, political or otherwise) has its share of nutters and extremists but it does seem that since 9/11 islam has been at the forefront of terrorist atrocities hence my question here.

//However I have reasons to believe that majority of the people committing these atrocities are not even Muslims but have disguised as one.//
The perpetrators of recent atrocities call themselves muslim, identify as muslim and practice their religion as muslim. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, then in all probability, its a duck.

//Finally, I have no doubt that behind every terrorist group in last 15 plus years are mainly two intelligence agencies, CIA and Mossad. Behind all of the terrorist attacks in Pakistan RAW (Indian agency) is involved and they are helped by CIA and Mossad. //
Ive heard you say this before. What evidence do you have for that?
Thanks again for reply.
(I havnt had chance yet to view link)

[keyplus90]

I am ignoring all of the other posts as I have seen most of these twisted verses of Quran before. Thanks anyway.

Nailit – I will answer your second question first that what proof do I have? Don’t forget that proof or evidence usually comes from media. And we all know that media is so bias when reporting about certain aspects. But I will give you a handful of things to think about.

First of all you mentioned 9/11. Do you really believe that 18 people can manage to hijack 4 different planes in one day without any help from inside and without the knowledge of intelligence agency like CIA? Then I know there are many conspiracy theories but I will ignore all of them. But in the case of the plane that hit Pentagon, do you really believe a whole commercial jet evaporated?

Now leave 9/11 behind. All of the known leaders of the so called terrorist groups in the recent years have either been trained by CIA at some stage of their life or have been in a prison or captivity where CIA & Co had control of. Osama biN Laden trained by CIA, Abubakar Al Baghdadi (ISIS leader) was in prison in Baghdad for over 7 years under the control of CIA. Baitullah Mehsood (Leader of Tehreke Taliban Pakistan aka TTP) was in Guantanamo bay for few years before he was taken to Afghanistan (although he was Pakistani) and then released only to announce himself as a leader of TTP. What happened during all this time? We all know that this person Jihadi John was also known to CIA and was in regular touch with MI5 etc. There was no Shia, Sunni conflict at this level until after 4 years USA invaded Iraq. In other words it took them 4 years to create networks. Same way no one knew TTP in Pakistan until CIA was allowed to go into Pakistani tribal areas and even there it took them around 3 years to create network. A guy called Raymond Allen Davis was arrested in Lahore (Pakistan) where he shot dead 2 people for road rage in 2011. According to Pakistani agencies his phone record showed that he was in regular touch with TTP leadership that was behind terrorist activities in Pakistan. He was so important to CIA that Obama himself got involved and whisked him out of Pakistan. During the time he was in prison there was not a single terrorist attack in Pakistan.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/21/raymond-davis-pakistan-cia-blackwater

So sometime only evidence you have is 2+2=4. You have to see who is benefitting and most of these terrorist groups have mainly American weapons. Who is supplying them all that?

As to Pakistani terrorism issues, just watch these two clips. One person is Ajit Doval, Indian inland security consultant for Indian govt. Explaining here how he uses Taliban to do terrorist activities in Pakistan.


http://www.downvids.net/raw-and-cia-behind-terrorism-in-pakistan-497862.html

[Svejk]

I've noticed that a lot of criminals go to prison. Until keyplus opened my eyes, I didn't realise the state was training them to murder, steal, etc. I wonder how they choose the candidates for 'training'.

[naomi24]

According to Keyplus Muslims aren't responsible for any atrocity - and he's very keen on promoting any conspiracy theory that might lead the reader to agree. Nevertheless he thinks the Taliban will eventually be hailed as heroes, he says that Muslims come to the west not for a better life but to show us the way, he believes that eventually Islam will rule, and he would like to see the flag of Islam flying over Downing Street. Confusing, eh?