ChatterBank2 mins ago
J'accuse!
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Has boring rationalism, secularism and atheism squeezed out the very life of our society leaving a vacuum which is now being readily filled by Islam?
I read in an article written by a worried mother on her son's 'conversion'; Spectator 4:10:14.
"...Our boy had never shown any interest in religion before he found Islam at 16. We're atheists, and we raised him to be tolerant of all faiths but wary of anyone selling easy answers ....."
She seems to fail to see that there just might be some connection.
I read in an article written by a worried mother on her son's 'conversion'; Spectator 4:10:14.
"...Our boy had never shown any interest in religion before he found Islam at 16. We're atheists, and we raised him to be tolerant of all faiths but wary of anyone selling easy answers ....."
She seems to fail to see that there just might be some connection.
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"// do you find the incomprehensible more beautiful than tha comprehensible//
Continuously!"
Perhaps, but I don't think this is an absolute truth -- it's just your take on things. As it happens, I partially share the view, perhaps, in the sense that I generally enjoy art, music and literature less if I've gone to the trouble of analysing their content, structure etc etc., and prefer to just listen to music for its own sake. But for others the joy in such work is greatly increased by considering such things. Neither approach is wrong, and it just depends on what you prefer personally.
When it comes to understanding the world, I think it's beneficial to try and understand it. Not least because the attmept to do so has had the effect of greatly expanding the size, and age, of the Universe. Where, not 100 years ago, it was just one galaxy, now there are billions and billions to enjoy; where once we thought of the Universe as fairly young (well, some did), its age is after all far greater than that. And since we are still so far away from comprehending the Universe in any meaningful sense, it's hard to see how the effort has diminished things that much.
In the end, personality will come into play.
Continuously!"
Perhaps, but I don't think this is an absolute truth -- it's just your take on things. As it happens, I partially share the view, perhaps, in the sense that I generally enjoy art, music and literature less if I've gone to the trouble of analysing their content, structure etc etc., and prefer to just listen to music for its own sake. But for others the joy in such work is greatly increased by considering such things. Neither approach is wrong, and it just depends on what you prefer personally.
When it comes to understanding the world, I think it's beneficial to try and understand it. Not least because the attmept to do so has had the effect of greatly expanding the size, and age, of the Universe. Where, not 100 years ago, it was just one galaxy, now there are billions and billions to enjoy; where once we thought of the Universe as fairly young (well, some did), its age is after all far greater than that. And since we are still so far away from comprehending the Universe in any meaningful sense, it's hard to see how the effort has diminished things that much.
In the end, personality will come into play.
jim; Yes I agree with you, though knowing the biblical context of say The *** of Babylon, may increase you understanding of the subject intellectually I'm not sure how much impact that has on your appreciation of Durer's art.
Many, including me find tribal 'art' from gone civilizations exciting, and not knowing what is represented, doesn't really diminish that response.
All the arts are different, appreciating literature without understanding it wouldn't make much sense though.
Many, including me find tribal 'art' from gone civilizations exciting, and not knowing what is represented, doesn't really diminish that response.
All the arts are different, appreciating literature without understanding it wouldn't make much sense though.
Us old cold hearted unemotional chaps have a saying..'If you can't put it into words you don't understand it'... probably these days it should be 'If you can't devise an equation to explain it then you don't understand it', so has anybody come across mathematical poetry ...just algebra nothing else?
-- answer removed --
Khandro - // ... we raised him to be tolerant of all faiths but wary of anyone selling easy answers ....."
The "easy answers" are those like "God did it". No comprehension required because they are completely without any further detail for analysis. Quite frankly it is boring and inane.
In contrast, a thorough understanding science takes a lot of study. But to those who make the effort, the universe becomes a far more rich and fascinating place. Science explains how we got to be here in great depth.
Tolerance of all faiths requires tolerance of many ignorant attitudes such as denigration of women, glorification of genocide and hatred of homosexuals just to name a few. I could not be so apathetic.
The "easy answers" are those like "God did it". No comprehension required because they are completely without any further detail for analysis. Quite frankly it is boring and inane.
In contrast, a thorough understanding science takes a lot of study. But to those who make the effort, the universe becomes a far more rich and fascinating place. Science explains how we got to be here in great depth.
Tolerance of all faiths requires tolerance of many ignorant attitudes such as denigration of women, glorification of genocide and hatred of homosexuals just to name a few. I could not be so apathetic.
OP: Have morals declined in some ways? Is this largely attributable to loss of (Christian?) faith?
Result: another sterile debate about religious belief.
Football hooliganism may have been unheard of when Khandro was a boy. So was the decapitation of off-duty British soldiers in their own country.
Maybe you should ask a question about that.
.
Result: another sterile debate about religious belief.
Football hooliganism may have been unheard of when Khandro was a boy. So was the decapitation of off-duty British soldiers in their own country.
Maybe you should ask a question about that.
.
Khandro, //Khandro makes mental note; never argue with idiots//
But you offer no argument. You insult people, and condemn them without offering a sound reason, and your airy-fairy references to philosophers and poets carry no rational argument either. You aren’t arguing with anyone – least of all idiots.
But you offer no argument. You insult people, and condemn them without offering a sound reason, and your airy-fairy references to philosophers and poets carry no rational argument either. You aren’t arguing with anyone – least of all idiots.
naomi;//But you offer no argument.//
The argument is right there in the OP and I have done nothing but argue the point throughout the thread, if you don't, or refuse to see it, I can't help that.
The boy did not convert[i to Islam he had nothing to convert [i]from] having been brought up in an atheistic family ethos, and was therefore like so many young men and women considered a target for recruitment by Islamists. This is happening in playgrounds and on the streets daily.
Had he been brought up in even a moderately Catholic, Anglican, Buddhist or Hindu family and given at least a modicum of religious guidance and standpoint, they wouldn't have wasted their time on him because what they seek are 'empty vessels'.
The argument is right there in the OP and I have done nothing but argue the point throughout the thread, if you don't, or refuse to see it, I can't help that.
The boy did not convert[i to Islam he had nothing to convert [i]from] having been brought up in an atheistic family ethos, and was therefore like so many young men and women considered a target for recruitment by Islamists. This is happening in playgrounds and on the streets daily.
Had he been brought up in even a moderately Catholic, Anglican, Buddhist or Hindu family and given at least a modicum of religious guidance and standpoint, they wouldn't have wasted their time on him because what they seek are 'empty vessels'.
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