Believers,

[nailit]

is there ANYTHING that would make you think that you may be wrong?
And in the interest of equality, sceptics, is there anything that might make you think you may be wrong?

[jomifl]

Naomi, Khandro only asks questions, it is so much easier than answering them.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //n. "Why don’t you care..?" Is an accusation, stop wriggling. //

I have nothing to wriggle from so that’s not even a nice try. I would suggest that anyone who negates the abuse that religion imposes upon the weak and vulnerable with a response such as the one you’ve given [The weak and the vulnerable suffer many kinds of "negative effects] should seriously examine his ethics. Recognise your own moral failings and attend to the well-being of your own ‘soul’ before you continue preaching to the rest of us – and if you want to understand sincere and innate altruism, ask some of the atheists here. They’ll be happy to educate you.

Jom, Khandro digs himself into many a hole, but he’s excelled himself this time.

[Khandro]

Padre nuestro que estás en los cielos

Santificado sea tu Nombre

Venga tu reino

Hágase tu voluntad

En la tierra como en el cielo

Danos hoy el pan de este día

y perdona nuestras deudas

como nosotros perdonamos nuestros deudores

y no nos dejes caer en al tentación

sino que líbranos del malo.

Amen.

[naomi24]

^ :o)

[Khandro]

Vater unser im Himmel,
geheiligt werde dein Name;
dein Reich komme;
dein Wille geschehe,
wie im Himmel so auf Erden.
Unser tägliches Brot gib uns heute.
Und vergib uns unsere Schuld,
wie auch wir vergeben unsern Schuldigern;
und führe uns nicht in Versuchung,
sondern erlöse uns von dem Bösen.

Denn dein ist das Reich und die Kraft
und die Herrlichkeit in Ewigkeit.

Amen.

[mrblear]

It's the so-called Lord's Prayer in foreign - ironic that considering Khando has ducked my request for an explanation why believers pray to an omniscient God.

[naomi24]

In light of Khandro’s latest offerings I’m wondering if vetuste_ennemi will withdraw his invitation to him for drinks or dinner or some such thing. Can’t see the conversation being up to much. ;o)

[Khandro]

Notre Père, qui es aux cieux,
Que ton nom soit sanctifié,
Que ton règne vienne,
Que ta volonté soit faite sur la terre comme au ciel.

Donne-nous aujourd'hui notre pain de ce jour.
Pardonne-nous nos offences
Comme nous pardonnons aussi à ceux qui nous ont offensés.
Et ne nous soumets pas à la tentation,
mais délivre-nous du mal,
car c'est à toi qu'appartiennent le règne,
la puissance et la gloire, aux siècles des siècles.
Amen.

[naomi24]

Haaaaaaaaaa!

[Zacs-Master]

I don't believe that you believe your beliefs to be believable. If you do then.....I can't believe it.

[vulcan42]

And then he calls us pompous.

[naomi24]

Got to laugh. Oh dear! Haaaaaa!

[mibn2cweus]

Ourway Atherfay inway eavenhay,
allowedhay ebay ouryay amenay.
Ouryay ingdomkay omecay,
ouryay illway ebay oneday,
onway earthway, asway itway isway inway eavenhay.
Ivegay usway isthay ayday ourway ailyday eadbray,
andway orgivefay usway ourway ebtsday,
asway eway alsoway avehay orgivenfay ourway ebtorsday.
Andway eadlay usway otnay intoway emptationtay,
utbay eliverday usway omfray evilway.

[Khandro]

mr blear; In answer to your question "why do believers pray to an omniscient God." My own answer would be simply, "because they want to". But someone else put her reason much better;

I recited the Our Father (Lord’s Prayer) in Greek every day before work, and I repeated it very often in the vineyard. Since that time I have made a practice of saying it through once each morning with absolute attention. If during the recitation my attention wanders or goes to sleep, in the minutest degree, I begin again until I have once succeeded in going through it with absolutely pure attention. Sometimes it comes about that I say it again out of sheer pleasure, but I only do it if I really feel the impulse. The effect of this practice is extraordinary and surprises me every time, for, although I experience it each day, it exceeds my expectation at each repetition. – Simone Weil

[Khandro]

So her prayer would have sounded;

Pater hêmôn ho en toes ouranoes;
hagiasthêtô to onoma sou;
elthetô hê basileia sou;
genêthêtô to thelêma sou,
hôs en ouranô, kae epi tês gês.
ton arton hêmôn ton epiousion dos hêmin sêmeron;
kae aphes hêmin ta opheilêmata hêmôn,
hôs kae hêmeis aphiemen toes opheiletaes hêmôn;
kae mê eisenenkês hêmas eis peirasmon,
alla rhysae hêmas apo tou ponerou.
hoti sou estin hê basileia kae hê dynamis kae hê doxa eis tous aeônas;
amên.

Though she was so brilliant she could have said it in several languages (including sanskrit).

[Khandro]

It could also be;

PATER noster, qui es in cœlis;
sanctificatur nomen tuum:
Adveniat regnum tuum;
fiat voluntas tua,

sicut in cœlo, et in terra.
Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie:
Et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris:
et ne nos inducas in tentationem:
sed libera nos a malo.

to which the doxology may be added

Quia tuum est regnum, et potestas, et Gloria,
in saecula. Amen.




Beautiful isn't it?