Society And Religion

[Khandro]

The French writer and intellectual, Michel Houellbecq, has always maintained that no society can survive without religion, do you agree?

[naomi24]

I don't agree with him, but he's a controversial chap and I would question his reasons for saying that.

[Khandro]

naomi; He says clearly what he believes, isn't it for you to give your reasons why you disagree?

[pixie374]

Why does he think that? What religion did cavemen have?

[naomi24]

Khandro, where am I to look for this particular pronouncement from him? Perhaps you should have provided a link?

[pixie374]

No khandro, it's up to the person making the claims to prove it.

[bookbinder]

People have always, I believe, needed something to believe in. Some higher authority that is responsible for phenomena that cannot be ascribed to human influence. That is probably where religion originated, so, yes, I can agree with the Frenchman's assertion that no society can survive without religion.

[pixie374]

They haven't, bookbinder, though. Many people don't.

[jomifl]

What does he mean by 'religion'?

[jomifl]

The Atheist Society manage quite well without it though it could be claimed that it is their 'raison d'etre'.

[bookbinder]

Ancient Greeks and Romans invented gods, goddesses, and nymphs who were responsible for various natural phenomena - waterfalls; thunder; etc. - and those deities were worshipped, so that counts as a kind of religion.

[jomifl]

/gods, goddesses, and nymphs who were responsible for various natural phenomena/
Not quite, the greeks may have imagined gods, goddesses and nymphs but that does not mean that they actually existed or were responsible for anything.

[Old_Geezer]

The problem is keeping religion out of such a society. If the individuals are capable of thought then sooner or later some will start considering the possibility of the spiritual, form some opinions and beliefs and finally persuade others. Society survives but then has a religious aspect to it.

[Canary42]

Margaret Thatcher maintained there was no such thing as society, so obviously it hasn't survived.

[Khandro]

Please provide an example of a society which has thrived without a religious/ spiritual dimension. Russia, for example, came close to the edge, but now with new churches proliferating is back on course.
N.B. While the great cathedrals and small parish churches of (most of) Europe are emptying, it cannot have gone without your notice that in the vacuum so formed the continuing proliferation of mosques; 1,200 in the UK and a similar amount in Germany with plans to build hundreds more, France meanwhile has 2,300 with another 250 planned.
Houellebecq's latest novel 'Soumission' which has taken France by storm, imagines an Islamic government taking power in France in 1922.

I have only read a synopsis, but this is achieved by Holland in order to keep out Marin le Pen and the right, forms an alliance with the Muslim Brotherhood.

[jomifl]

/imagines an Islamic government taking power in France in 1922

It won't happen, the French are far more racist than the British. The rural French detest the North Africans and Muslims intensely.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //Please provide an example of a society which has thrived without a religious/ spiritual dimension.//

Religion isn't the reason societies thrive. I know of no society that consists entirely of citizens who choose individually to reject religion and therefore there is no example to offer in comparison. You say your man maintains that no society can survive without religion, but that's not what he's really saying, is it. As far as I can tell, he's saying that one religion is likely to replace another which is rather removed from the initial claim you say he's made.

[Hypognosis]

If rumours are true, Parisians are famed for hating practically every shade of non-Parisian, even extending that to most of their fellow countrymen.

The human condition, folks, is that we are all highly parochial and don't wish to see much further than the end of our own noses.

[Khandro]

Typos; Obviously the novel is set in 2022 and the 'president' requires an 'e'.

naomi; //Religion isn't the reason societies thrive// then please give an example of a society which has survived for long without religion? I shall answer for you; you can't!

jomifl; //It won't happen, the French are far more racist than the British. The rural French detest the North Africans and Muslims intensely.//

Whatever the views of rural French it won't necessarily save them from being swamped by Islamification (according to this novel).

[Hypognosis]

@Khandro

It is a curious claim, that the entire fabric of society spontaneously "falls apart", for want of a shared system of belief. I can understand why an individual person could go into meltdown when everything they hold dear is shown to be false but society is many people, all striving to do their part, make money and enjoy what that can bring them. Why would they want to stop doing that, overnight, just because X has been revealed to be a fictional character?

[wildwood]

I presume their were no religions 5 million years ago. and guess what..... we're here.