Saturday Punt - 2 November 2024
Other Sports1 min ago
Welby: We Need To Understand What Jihadists Are Talking About
92 Answers
//It is becoming “essential” to grasp the logic of people driven by an obsessive belief that the end of the world is nigh//
They're not.
//It’s very difficult to understand the things that impel people to some of the dreadful actions that we have seen over the last few years unless you have some sense of religious literacy.//
That’s true – and he doesn’t.
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They're not.
//It’s very difficult to understand the things that impel people to some of the dreadful actions that we have seen over the last few years unless you have some sense of religious literacy.//
That’s true – and he doesn’t.
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//Apples and oranges don't really help a debate//
How is it apples and oranges? Nazi regime wanted to impose their sick ideology on the world at whatever cost to human life.
Jihadist want to impose THEIR sick ideology on the world at whatever cost to human life.
I see no difference. What you have just done is no different to what goodlife does... states an opinion and then refuse to follow it up. Hit and run.
And no, its not a thread diversion.
How is it apples and oranges? Nazi regime wanted to impose their sick ideology on the world at whatever cost to human life.
Jihadist want to impose THEIR sick ideology on the world at whatever cost to human life.
I see no difference. What you have just done is no different to what goodlife does... states an opinion and then refuse to follow it up. Hit and run.
And no, its not a thread diversion.
Eddie > This is a man who rose to the very highest executive level of the international oil industry, by his own efforts before deciding to give that life up to join the Church.
How does this equate to understanding what drives the Islamists?
It's like saying that great footballers make great managers. Very often, they don't..
How does this equate to understanding what drives the Islamists?
It's like saying that great footballers make great managers. Very often, they don't..
nailit - ////Apples and oranges don't really help a debate//
How is it apples and oranges? Nazi regime wanted to impose their sick ideology on the world at whatever cost to human life.
Jihadist want to impose THEIR sick ideology on the world at whatever cost to human life.
I see no difference. //
There is a massive world of difference.
There is a basic correlation between the notions of domination by the Nazis, and the Islamists, but there the similarities cease.
The world is a vastly different place, war and conflict are conducted in a completely different way, politician alliances are completely re-drawn, the ideology was philosophical, and is now religious, the list goes on and on and on ...
But to address your question, even though I believe it does not add to the debate, yes I would have tried to address the issue of Nazi domination by diplomatic means, because I believe that military action usually follows failure to rationalise over a cliff.
The main difference between now and 1938 is that, in theory, we have a better understanding of differing ideologies, and a far more sophisticated attitude to people who see the world differently from the way we see it.
Trying to solve the issue by military means was never going to work, and we have the deaths of innocents on both sides to prove it.
It is time to look at trying to address the issue a different way, and simply carrying on sending more bombs and bullets is only going to continue to current failure to deal with the situation.
We have power and image-hungry politicians who are looking to their place in history, and military commanders whose career raison d'etre is to engage in combat, who will continue to push for their 'war on terror' - but recent history proves that it is solving nothing whatsoever, so something different has to be worth looking at.
//What you have just done is no different to what goodlife does... states an opinion and then refuse to follow it up. Hit and run. //
I have followed it up, stung into response by that odious comparison!
// And no, its not a thread diversion. //
We can agree do differ on that I am sure.
How is it apples and oranges? Nazi regime wanted to impose their sick ideology on the world at whatever cost to human life.
Jihadist want to impose THEIR sick ideology on the world at whatever cost to human life.
I see no difference. //
There is a massive world of difference.
There is a basic correlation between the notions of domination by the Nazis, and the Islamists, but there the similarities cease.
The world is a vastly different place, war and conflict are conducted in a completely different way, politician alliances are completely re-drawn, the ideology was philosophical, and is now religious, the list goes on and on and on ...
But to address your question, even though I believe it does not add to the debate, yes I would have tried to address the issue of Nazi domination by diplomatic means, because I believe that military action usually follows failure to rationalise over a cliff.
The main difference between now and 1938 is that, in theory, we have a better understanding of differing ideologies, and a far more sophisticated attitude to people who see the world differently from the way we see it.
Trying to solve the issue by military means was never going to work, and we have the deaths of innocents on both sides to prove it.
It is time to look at trying to address the issue a different way, and simply carrying on sending more bombs and bullets is only going to continue to current failure to deal with the situation.
We have power and image-hungry politicians who are looking to their place in history, and military commanders whose career raison d'etre is to engage in combat, who will continue to push for their 'war on terror' - but recent history proves that it is solving nothing whatsoever, so something different has to be worth looking at.
//What you have just done is no different to what goodlife does... states an opinion and then refuse to follow it up. Hit and run. //
I have followed it up, stung into response by that odious comparison!
// And no, its not a thread diversion. //
We can agree do differ on that I am sure.
EDDIE, //naomi and others are seriously underestimating the intellect of Welby.//
Not at all – but we are acknowledging his non-existent understanding in this particular area.
OG, . //It is only by knowing the 'enemy' that one can effectively counter it and overcome.//
Absolutely right. Sadly there are those who refuse to even attempt to know the ‘enemy’. Andy-hughes talks about hindsight. Hindsight is very often what complacency yields.
Andu-hughes, //we have a better understanding of differing ideologies//
Who are we? By your own admission you know nothing about Islamic ideology.
Not at all – but we are acknowledging his non-existent understanding in this particular area.
OG, . //It is only by knowing the 'enemy' that one can effectively counter it and overcome.//
Absolutely right. Sadly there are those who refuse to even attempt to know the ‘enemy’. Andy-hughes talks about hindsight. Hindsight is very often what complacency yields.
Andu-hughes, //we have a better understanding of differing ideologies//
Who are we? By your own admission you know nothing about Islamic ideology.
re naomi at 11.19
I think you may find that a man who has risen by his own efforts to be the head of one of the largest religious orders in the world has a lot more knowledge of the mindset of a Muslim jihadist than anyone on AB indeed more than most people in the world including other Muslims. . You do not get to that position without a great deal of study of other faiths!
I think you may find that a man who has risen by his own efforts to be the head of one of the largest religious orders in the world has a lot more knowledge of the mindset of a Muslim jihadist than anyone on AB indeed more than most people in the world including other Muslims. . You do not get to that position without a great deal of study of other faiths!
// No cup of tea,no dialogue,they have to be extinguished. //
Problem is, they do that themselves in busy airports and trains.
It is fairly obvious that what Welby is attempting, is beyond the comprehension of many, who think dropping bombs on the middle east will solve anything. It won't, it will make things worse. Are we any safer now than in 2001 when we joined the Bush in his crusade?
Problem is, they do that themselves in busy airports and trains.
It is fairly obvious that what Welby is attempting, is beyond the comprehension of many, who think dropping bombs on the middle east will solve anything. It won't, it will make things worse. Are we any safer now than in 2001 when we joined the Bush in his crusade?
Gromit, please don't resort to rudeness. It's not necessary. The simple fact is - and it is a fact - they are not driven by an obsessive belief that the world is nigh. He is utterly wrong.
I'll ask the question again - the question that so far no one has answered. Radical Islam tells us quite clearly what its ambitions are. Why don't you, andy-hughes, Justin Welby, et al believe them?
I'll ask the question again - the question that so far no one has answered. Radical Islam tells us quite clearly what its ambitions are. Why don't you, andy-hughes, Justin Welby, et al believe them?
-- answer removed --
Muslims believe a version of the old testament, including the prophesy of Armeggedon. In short, they believe a Great Battle will occur in the region of Syria which will hearld the end of times.
While many fundamentalist christians believe we are near to the apocalypse, so do many fundamentalist muslims, for largely the same reasons. That is not to say all muslims, but those that do believe these are desperate times.
While many fundamentalist christians believe we are near to the apocalypse, so do many fundamentalist muslims, for largely the same reasons. That is not to say all muslims, but those that do believe these are desperate times.
Gromit, handy bit of copying and pasting there. Good old Google to the rescue – only it didn’t. ;o)
Yes, Muslims do believe in the end of times, but that is not, as Justin Welby incorrectly maintains, what drives Jihadists to do what they do. Their aim is to establish a Caliphate, and in the process to conquer, to subjugate, and to wipe all other religions from the face of the earth. This is what they tell us and they make no bones about it - so I’ll ask you again. Why don’t you believe them?
Yes, Muslims do believe in the end of times, but that is not, as Justin Welby incorrectly maintains, what drives Jihadists to do what they do. Their aim is to establish a Caliphate, and in the process to conquer, to subjugate, and to wipe all other religions from the face of the earth. This is what they tell us and they make no bones about it - so I’ll ask you again. Why don’t you believe them?
Naomi,
No copy and pasting involved in my post. All my own words what I typed myself.
The Muslims are divided, and most of the terrorismis against each other. Most of the victims are other Muslims. Western targets are attacked because we have taken a side, so the other side attacks us. We have voluntarily put ourselves in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, so we are the enemy in the eyes of alqaeda, IS al bursa et al.
No copy and pasting involved in my post. All my own words what I typed myself.
The Muslims are divided, and most of the terrorismis against each other. Most of the victims are other Muslims. Western targets are attacked because we have taken a side, so the other side attacks us. We have voluntarily put ourselves in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, so we are the enemy in the eyes of alqaeda, IS al bursa et al.
Gromit - Naomi is consistent in her belief that she is a prophet without honour in her own land - a lone voice on the Answerbank who knows how Islamists think and function.
Speaking personally, and I aim sure you will be in agreement with me, I have never once denied the motives or methods of the extremists, I have always taken it as a given.
My consistent point, again in common with your view, is that the fanatics are a tiny minority who use their faith as a cover for their murderous attention-seeking self-aggrandisement.
It has never been a question of denying what the terrorists want, but about what we can do to try and find some common ground that will dilute their misconception and hatred of the west.
So hopefully the side-track about 'believing / not believing' can be dropped - it has nothing to do with the wider issue.
Speaking personally, and I aim sure you will be in agreement with me, I have never once denied the motives or methods of the extremists, I have always taken it as a given.
My consistent point, again in common with your view, is that the fanatics are a tiny minority who use their faith as a cover for their murderous attention-seeking self-aggrandisement.
It has never been a question of denying what the terrorists want, but about what we can do to try and find some common ground that will dilute their misconception and hatred of the west.
So hopefully the side-track about 'believing / not believing' can be dropped - it has nothing to do with the wider issue.
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