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I am still puzzled why so many unbelievers bother to show any interest in matters of belief and religion.
It would be like me suddenly posting on a cookery thread.
Not going to happen.
Why is this?
It would be like me suddenly posting on a cookery thread.
Not going to happen.
Why is this?
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Kidas. I do not advocate violence. Don't know where you got that from.
You are mostly right about people corrupting their own religion, when that religion calls for peace love and kindness.
Muslims however follow a religion that actually calls for violence. The corruption is peaceful Muslims. Check it out.
To you and Mibs, and others, you are all correct that my beliefs should indeed be questioned, and I do now sort of appreciate why some of you atheists comment and question as you do.
Quite often though, comments from some are rather hurtful I feel.
But thanks to all for your constructive conversation.
You are mostly right about people corrupting their own religion, when that religion calls for peace love and kindness.
Muslims however follow a religion that actually calls for violence. The corruption is peaceful Muslims. Check it out.
To you and Mibs, and others, you are all correct that my beliefs should indeed be questioned, and I do now sort of appreciate why some of you atheists comment and question as you do.
Quite often though, comments from some are rather hurtful I feel.
But thanks to all for your constructive conversation.
//'Seems to me that quite a few religions started out violent in order to convert and survive//
Christianity did not start out violent, OG, and violence can't be justified by any reading of the New Testament writings - "Love your enemy, bless those who persecute you", "My kingdom is not of this world", "Render unto Caesar..." etc. The violence arrived with its association with temporal power, Constantine and all that.
In the case of Islam (Theland's point) violence in order to subject an unbelieving world to God's just rule is mandatory.
Christianity did not start out violent, OG, and violence can't be justified by any reading of the New Testament writings - "Love your enemy, bless those who persecute you", "My kingdom is not of this world", "Render unto Caesar..." etc. The violence arrived with its association with temporal power, Constantine and all that.
In the case of Islam (Theland's point) violence in order to subject an unbelieving world to God's just rule is mandatory.
Theland
In this thread you appear to support violence against others:
https:/
I read your posts with increasing horror at your views.
Perhaps you don't intend to come across as judgmental, hating and vicious, but hat is how I read your posts.
If you want to avoid other people forming that impressin, perhaps you could moderate your language.
In this thread you appear to support violence against others:
https:/
I read your posts with increasing horror at your views.
Perhaps you don't intend to come across as judgmental, hating and vicious, but hat is how I read your posts.
If you want to avoid other people forming that impressin, perhaps you could moderate your language.
//Quite often though, comments from some are rather hurtful I feel.//
And we feel no less pain when cherished beliefs are exposed to truth.
I've learned sometimes it's necessary to stand outside our perceived selves in an attempt to consider alternative views more objectively.
Sometimes the truth hurts, no less so when we fight it with what can only be a losing battle, sometimes it seems the only way we learn.
No pain . . . no gain. ;o)
And we feel no less pain when cherished beliefs are exposed to truth.
I've learned sometimes it's necessary to stand outside our perceived selves in an attempt to consider alternative views more objectively.
Sometimes the truth hurts, no less so when we fight it with what can only be a losing battle, sometimes it seems the only way we learn.
No pain . . . no gain. ;o)
I'm unqualified to discuss in detail, but the old testament which comes first seemed fairly bloodthirsty. For sure there may have been more acceptance by the undertrodden looking for something to believe in when Christianity was first spread by Paul, (I've no idea what tactics were being used) and then finally taken up by the Romans; but a history of crusades and inquisition suggests it took a long time to truly reform, assuming it has everywhere.
//V_E
/how do you deal with Hitler??
Godwin's Law fulfilled again.//
I think you're smarter than cheap jibes like that, Kidas.
What is the right moral stance to take when the non-violent person meets the violent one?
"I wish thee no harm, but you are standing between me and where I am about to shoot".
/how do you deal with Hitler??
Godwin's Law fulfilled again.//
I think you're smarter than cheap jibes like that, Kidas.
What is the right moral stance to take when the non-violent person meets the violent one?
"I wish thee no harm, but you are standing between me and where I am about to shoot".
The original Christian message, OG, was "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".
Obviously "Christian" empires like Spain put a certain spin on the evangelical injunction to "teach" when they saw New World gold.
On the other hand Islam from its earliest days asserted: "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah."
Obviously "Christian" empires like Spain put a certain spin on the evangelical injunction to "teach" when they saw New World gold.
On the other hand Islam from its earliest days asserted: "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah."
//when they get to the pearly gates; oh boy, are they in for a shock//
You're anticipating a precedent and determining event, Khandro - the Day of Judgment.
I'll be shocked to find myself in the dock, that's for sure. But as a reasonably honest man I will be be admitting "guilty as charged", and will even own up to n number of previous offences (but they'll be on the rap sheet anyway, won't they?).
What I hope is that I have the chance, before sentencing, of addressing the court and asking the Judge Himself why the crimes I've been charged with, have admitted to and have been found guilty of deserve punishment while His Supreme Lordship's poor governance and neglect are excused.
You're anticipating a precedent and determining event, Khandro - the Day of Judgment.
I'll be shocked to find myself in the dock, that's for sure. But as a reasonably honest man I will be be admitting "guilty as charged", and will even own up to n number of previous offences (but they'll be on the rap sheet anyway, won't they?).
What I hope is that I have the chance, before sentencing, of addressing the court and asking the Judge Himself why the crimes I've been charged with, have admitted to and have been found guilty of deserve punishment while His Supreme Lordship's poor governance and neglect are excused.
Because religion is everywhere, in everything. it cuts a very deep groove through our society, it is ingrained in our psyche, to the extent that we often dont even realise it... it just 'is' ... and thats wrong.
its in our marriages, births and deaths, schools, libraries, things are named after it, it is even how we swear, its deep in our language, our entertainment, our songs, its in our laws, in politics. its deep within our behaviour, how we've been brought up, guilt and shame and sin etc - the list goes on and on...
it is just 'the way it is' ... and many people dont like that - thats why they seek to oppose it, and ideally get rid of it.
its in our marriages, births and deaths, schools, libraries, things are named after it, it is even how we swear, its deep in our language, our entertainment, our songs, its in our laws, in politics. its deep within our behaviour, how we've been brought up, guilt and shame and sin etc - the list goes on and on...
it is just 'the way it is' ... and many people dont like that - thats why they seek to oppose it, and ideally get rid of it.
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