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The Christian Thread.
102 Answers
A thread to discuss Christianity, as it is presented in the New Testament.
Hopefully, exchanges made with Christian love, or your love based on the Higher Power you worship.
And in that Spirit, a warm appreciation of any contributions made by atheists, agnostics, or religionists.
So to begin with a question, is Christianity as it is presented in the New Testament a good blueprint for our lives, and our society?
Hopefully, exchanges made with Christian love, or your love based on the Higher Power you worship.
And in that Spirit, a warm appreciation of any contributions made by atheists, agnostics, or religionists.
So to begin with a question, is Christianity as it is presented in the New Testament a good blueprint for our lives, and our society?
Answers
Theland - // Andy, if you love your neighbour as yourself, and we do take care of ourselves, (don't we?), then the same care is required for our neighbour? // But according to you, our 'neighbour' is only defined by some pre-
20:54 Tue 24th Nov 2020
The Apostle Paul sets out the standard in his epistle to Timothy:
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they ... Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth... men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men...
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they ... Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth... men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men...
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
Essentially, yes.
But human nature has to be allowed for, and human nature is to pick the bits we like, and ignore the bits we don't like.
Because it is human nature, and we're all human, that applies to anyone with any text for any faith.
That's how millions of Muslims can read the Koran and see a message that tells them to get on with people, and a small minority can see a message that tells them to blow up complete strangers.
It's all about interpretation, and that's when the problems start.
Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Baptists, they all read the same texts,the interpretation is the problem.
But human nature has to be allowed for, and human nature is to pick the bits we like, and ignore the bits we don't like.
Because it is human nature, and we're all human, that applies to anyone with any text for any faith.
That's how millions of Muslims can read the Koran and see a message that tells them to get on with people, and a small minority can see a message that tells them to blow up complete strangers.
It's all about interpretation, and that's when the problems start.
Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Baptists, they all read the same texts,the interpretation is the problem.
There are true adherents to any belief, and there are apostates, those who believe but choose not to follow through on those beliefs.
Andy makes a good point, human nature and interpretation, but that only goes so far.
Muslims living in this country may be more enthralled by the lifestyle and opportunities offered rather than follow the Imams who are the authoritative voice of the Koran.
The Koran is a violent book, exhorting its followers to jihad to bring about sharia law.
There is a tradition in the Koran that where there are two conflicting passages, the later one takes precedence, and the most violent are the later ones.
Jihad can mean anything from exploiting the benefits system to hurt us financially, through a whole spectrum of actions, culminating in murder.
Dying in jihad is the only certain way a Muslim can guarantee his place with Allah.
Other than that, Allah will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. No guarantees.
The imams are the intermediaries between Muslims and their prophet, who also I understand intercedes for them to Allah.
Being part of a loud mob of virtue signallers seems to be one of the main pastimes for apparently devout Muslims.
Andy makes a good point, human nature and interpretation, but that only goes so far.
Muslims living in this country may be more enthralled by the lifestyle and opportunities offered rather than follow the Imams who are the authoritative voice of the Koran.
The Koran is a violent book, exhorting its followers to jihad to bring about sharia law.
There is a tradition in the Koran that where there are two conflicting passages, the later one takes precedence, and the most violent are the later ones.
Jihad can mean anything from exploiting the benefits system to hurt us financially, through a whole spectrum of actions, culminating in murder.
Dying in jihad is the only certain way a Muslim can guarantee his place with Allah.
Other than that, Allah will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. No guarantees.
The imams are the intermediaries between Muslims and their prophet, who also I understand intercedes for them to Allah.
Being part of a loud mob of virtue signallers seems to be one of the main pastimes for apparently devout Muslims.
Ask ten bible believing Christians what they believe and you'll probably get ten different answers.
Usually no variation on the main themes of dogma, but widely differing views on war, abortion, LBGTQ, pre trib and post trib. Etcetc.
But if all are following the example of Jesus Christ and trying to emulate Him, and of course failing miserably, then all will agree that confession of sin in prayer is required, and a request for the strength to carry on.
Sadly, the churches have moved towards worldliness to be more accommodating, but in doing so, have watered down Christ's message so that in many instances they are no longer preaching truth, and becoming less relevant as a result.
Yes, we must move with the times, but not at the expense of the Christian message.
Usually no variation on the main themes of dogma, but widely differing views on war, abortion, LBGTQ, pre trib and post trib. Etcetc.
But if all are following the example of Jesus Christ and trying to emulate Him, and of course failing miserably, then all will agree that confession of sin in prayer is required, and a request for the strength to carry on.
Sadly, the churches have moved towards worldliness to be more accommodating, but in doing so, have watered down Christ's message so that in many instances they are no longer preaching truth, and becoming less relevant as a result.
Yes, we must move with the times, but not at the expense of the Christian message.
\\ Ask ten bible believing Christians what they believe and you'll probably get ten different answers.//
Therein lies the problem and as andy-hughes stated, it's all about interpretation. How can a book that is interpreted differently by people ever be used as a model for living our lives? Picking out the bits that only suit you is not the way to follow any deity.
Therein lies the problem and as andy-hughes stated, it's all about interpretation. How can a book that is interpreted differently by people ever be used as a model for living our lives? Picking out the bits that only suit you is not the way to follow any deity.
I don’t see why your ramble about Islam has any place in a discussion headed ‘The Christian Thread’. Theland …. but moving on…..
//is Christianity as it is presented in the New Testament a good blueprint for our lives, and our society?//
No doctrine that presents torture and murder by design as a fine example is beneficial to society. Neither is one that imposes irrational and mentally damaging notions of wrong-doing and guilt, and a subsequent requirement for grovelling confession, the absence of which allegedly condemns the subject to a rather nasty eternity.
As a ten year old, having been told that Jesus suffered for my sins, I cried buckets for his pain and for my guilt, never knowing what I’d done wrong to cause his sorry end. If you think that is beneficial to society, or to anyone individually, Theland, I’d like to know how and why. I await your response.
//is Christianity as it is presented in the New Testament a good blueprint for our lives, and our society?//
No doctrine that presents torture and murder by design as a fine example is beneficial to society. Neither is one that imposes irrational and mentally damaging notions of wrong-doing and guilt, and a subsequent requirement for grovelling confession, the absence of which allegedly condemns the subject to a rather nasty eternity.
As a ten year old, having been told that Jesus suffered for my sins, I cried buckets for his pain and for my guilt, never knowing what I’d done wrong to cause his sorry end. If you think that is beneficial to society, or to anyone individually, Theland, I’d like to know how and why. I await your response.
When new information is obtained, shining a light on previous!y held convictions, it is right that I revise my thinking on account of the new information.
That is precisely what I have done, and I no longer believe in eternal punishment although that does not negate Gods judgement and punishment for rejecting Him.
As for the rest of your post, I still believe in the necessity of objective moral standards, found with God.
Anything else is so full of holes as to be absolutely worthless.
Regarding your experiences as a child, I can only say that you bad a lousy R.E. teacher /vicar / priest or whatever, who should have been trained in child education and sensitivity.
That is precisely what I have done, and I no longer believe in eternal punishment although that does not negate Gods judgement and punishment for rejecting Him.
As for the rest of your post, I still believe in the necessity of objective moral standards, found with God.
Anything else is so full of holes as to be absolutely worthless.
Regarding your experiences as a child, I can only say that you bad a lousy R.E. teacher /vicar / priest or whatever, who should have been trained in child education and sensitivity.
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