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Fr Bill - you're quite new on here, but I'd love you to meet two old regulars - Theland and Mani Hussein. They haven't been here for some weeks. It'd be a really interesting time, as they've very different beliefs to your good self although they're both born-again. Mani is quite vocal - maybe he'll pop up? I disagree with most of his lectures. Theland and I seem to share many of the same viewpoints. But even though I'm not Christian I agree with a lot of your posts, and reckon your fairly sensible outlook could cause at least one of them some upset...
Erm....
Right...
Well without religion there'd be no sense of what's right or wrong or good or evil.
Civilisation would die out.
Sex before marriage is very naughty.
Gay people shouldn't be so damn happy.
You're all going to hell for... I don't know... kissing Richard Gere...
Does that help? It's what I really think and everything.
Right...
Well without religion there'd be no sense of what's right or wrong or good or evil.
Civilisation would die out.
Sex before marriage is very naughty.
Gay people shouldn't be so damn happy.
You're all going to hell for... I don't know... kissing Richard Gere...
Does that help? It's what I really think and everything.
Maybe you're not looking in the cough 'right' cough place?
Whickerman is right. As soon as you challenge a religinist's dogma, and give him some facts about his religion, he disappears. Theland and Mani have always done this, and the other day 4GS, who started the item below, made the ridiculous claim that Josephus had interviewed friends of Jesus who had witnessed the miracles! When I briefly put him right he disappeared too. As Whickerman says, that leaves the rest of us - who have nothing to argue about.
Nice try, China Doll, but you need to be more convincing to get us going.
Nice try, China Doll, but you need to be more convincing to get us going.
China�and Whickerman: Whilst AB is masked in anonymity�er..and apparently sometimes in Animosity as well, from what I�ve seen, it does provide some fascinating windows on the pulse of our society.
Historically, I am not a debater. I�m what I�ve always described as a �worker bee.� I leave the dogma slinging zealots to ostracise, mortify, humiliate and denigrate with their piety and righteousness others who may have sensible and valid points, but are unable to voice them, due to their being drowned out by the screaming invectives of those who live in their state of Nirvana.
Personally, it is my own belief that you do not need to be religious in order to be spiritual. People find and practice their spirituality each and every day, through the people they touch and the things they do. This does not need to be achieved within the four walls of a church.
The church itself often becomes a large hospital, standing as a vanguard for the damaged and ill. Sadly some of those societal illnesses can occasionally take over the church body, thus causing infection to run rampant throughout. It is only when it is too late that people discover they have become victims of that infection.
At the other end of the spectrum, the body church provides several important things � it provides a sense of community. It provides a place for nourishment. (both in the physical and spiritual) and it provides a place of celebration. (a birthday party for one is never quite as memorable as a birthday party with hundreds attending.)
Each and every day I get to see amalgams of society and religious dogma work at its best AND its worst.
But if I ever stop contributing and close my doors to this planet, I will most definitely be dead.
I�ll be sure to look in from time to time.
Fr Bill
Historically, I am not a debater. I�m what I�ve always described as a �worker bee.� I leave the dogma slinging zealots to ostracise, mortify, humiliate and denigrate with their piety and righteousness others who may have sensible and valid points, but are unable to voice them, due to their being drowned out by the screaming invectives of those who live in their state of Nirvana.
Personally, it is my own belief that you do not need to be religious in order to be spiritual. People find and practice their spirituality each and every day, through the people they touch and the things they do. This does not need to be achieved within the four walls of a church.
The church itself often becomes a large hospital, standing as a vanguard for the damaged and ill. Sadly some of those societal illnesses can occasionally take over the church body, thus causing infection to run rampant throughout. It is only when it is too late that people discover they have become victims of that infection.
At the other end of the spectrum, the body church provides several important things � it provides a sense of community. It provides a place for nourishment. (both in the physical and spiritual) and it provides a place of celebration. (a birthday party for one is never quite as memorable as a birthday party with hundreds attending.)
Each and every day I get to see amalgams of society and religious dogma work at its best AND its worst.
But if I ever stop contributing and close my doors to this planet, I will most definitely be dead.
I�ll be sure to look in from time to time.
Fr Bill
Vicar...
I have to say I didn't understand a word of your paragraph regarding the zealots, nirvanna etc.. please can you clarify what you meant?
With regards to spirituality, I agree. You don't a church or indeed a God to be a spritual person in my opinon.
I didn't understand the point about the infection either. Can you clarify that too please?
I agree that where a church or spiritual atmosphere provides peace and a sense of belonging and or fufillment to someone then that is usually a good thing.
Please don't think me deliberately obtuse. I'm all for lively debate but I do like to understand what I'm debating first... I've never been very good at jerking my knee!
I have to say I didn't understand a word of your paragraph regarding the zealots, nirvanna etc.. please can you clarify what you meant?
With regards to spirituality, I agree. You don't a church or indeed a God to be a spritual person in my opinon.
I didn't understand the point about the infection either. Can you clarify that too please?
I agree that where a church or spiritual atmosphere provides peace and a sense of belonging and or fufillment to someone then that is usually a good thing.
Please don't think me deliberately obtuse. I'm all for lively debate but I do like to understand what I'm debating first... I've never been very good at jerking my knee!
Morning China, I�m not thinking that you�re obtuse at all. Please accept my apologies.
As you and I have noticed in some of your other well-presented threads, there are certain individuals who really don�t care what you, I, or anyone else for that matter, have to say. They�d prefer to shoot anyone and everyone down who doesn�t agree with their position.
I find that sad. Hence, my comment about the zealots who live in their little nirvana. I�ve just this second remembered my second year in Romania after the fall of Ceausescu and his �tasteful� wife. There was a church group that arrived�loads of money in their pockets�and loads of dogma. Within about 6 months, their church was indeed full. And you could quickly identify some of their congregation. They�d walk through the village with their Bibles in hand and each and every breath they uttered in public was some form of salutatory blessing. But what also happened is that there was a clear division growing. Those who did not attend �the church� were looked down upon and became targets of ridicule and elimination (in the metaphorical sense). This phenomena lasted for a few years. Today, it�s back to a level of balance�
Sorry, I digressed..but I gather you got the point.
That more or less leads to the infection. SO many churches are forced to deal with this on a daily basis. Cliques are formed, petty differences abound, those who contribute more believe they have the right to dictate�and sadly, there are clergy who actually believe they do! But at the end, the silent ones, the �different� ones, the ones who fail to conform to the established essence of that church, really, in the rawest of terms, have fallen prey to that infection.
If we remove the word �church� and replace it with mosque, it becomes more easy to identify when the preaching of hatred places a pall over the faithful. And in time, slowly, almost imperceptibly at times, that
As you and I have noticed in some of your other well-presented threads, there are certain individuals who really don�t care what you, I, or anyone else for that matter, have to say. They�d prefer to shoot anyone and everyone down who doesn�t agree with their position.
I find that sad. Hence, my comment about the zealots who live in their little nirvana. I�ve just this second remembered my second year in Romania after the fall of Ceausescu and his �tasteful� wife. There was a church group that arrived�loads of money in their pockets�and loads of dogma. Within about 6 months, their church was indeed full. And you could quickly identify some of their congregation. They�d walk through the village with their Bibles in hand and each and every breath they uttered in public was some form of salutatory blessing. But what also happened is that there was a clear division growing. Those who did not attend �the church� were looked down upon and became targets of ridicule and elimination (in the metaphorical sense). This phenomena lasted for a few years. Today, it�s back to a level of balance�
Sorry, I digressed..but I gather you got the point.
That more or less leads to the infection. SO many churches are forced to deal with this on a daily basis. Cliques are formed, petty differences abound, those who contribute more believe they have the right to dictate�and sadly, there are clergy who actually believe they do! But at the end, the silent ones, the �different� ones, the ones who fail to conform to the established essence of that church, really, in the rawest of terms, have fallen prey to that infection.
If we remove the word �church� and replace it with mosque, it becomes more easy to identify when the preaching of hatred places a pall over the faithful. And in time, slowly, almost imperceptibly at times, that
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