Your punishment, and God.

[Lonnie]

I'm having a field day here at the moment,

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/museum/curtis-museum/ alton-history/fanny-adams.htm

If the above story was to happen today, in Britain, (non Brits please answer also), what punishment do you reckon he'd get?,

What, if you had the power, would you recomend, and for people of the religious persuasion, where would God fit into it?.

Many thanks.

[Octavius]

He would probably put forward an insanity plea and be placed in a secure psychiatric unit for the rest of his life, there can really be no rehabilitation from that can there.

I have no idea where God would fit into it. Do you mean in any way particular?

[naomi24]

I agree with Octavius. He'd be placed in a secure unit for life.

As far as God's punishment goes (not that I believe in it), since the perpetrator was insane, and therefore not responsible for his actions, I would imagine that God, if he's the loving God his believers say he is, wouldn't punish him, but rather heal him. Shame he didn't think to heal him before he slaughtered poor Fanny Adams. What a gruesome tale.

[obNOXious]

I'm not at all convinced that he was insane,given the circumstances and as Octavius and Naomi have said he'd end up in a secure unit these days if he was shown to be insane and if not then he'd get the heftiest of prison sentences one would hope.
I don't personally have an opinion on God in all this, as that doesn't really fit my belief system but if I had godlike power then clearly i'd have prevented such a thing happening in the first place, and should that have been impossible then I'd have sorted him out with a thunderbolt afterwards and a reincarnation as something slimy and likely to be tortured.
If you mean by 'power' the power of sentencing then he'd be away for life with no chance of release.

[Lonnie]

As a believer in Capital Punishment, I agree with the punishment he got, because, then the state (us) wouldn't be paying to keep him alive, and and in todays Britain, i'm sure that someone like Lord Longford would eventually come along quoting his 'Human Rights'.

As far as God is concerned, To believers, God knows everything that is going to happen, and i'd like to have heard their take on it, and why he would let this happen.

[naomi24]

In that case, perhaps rather than 'why would God let this happen?', the question ought to be 'why does God make people insane in the first place?' If he didn't, then madness wouldn't exist, and things like this wouldn't happen at all.

[Theland1]

According to the bible, Mankinds biggest problem is sin.
Its effect permeate every facet of our lives, from illness to insanity, despair to death.
That is why Jesus focused on sin rather than the Roman occupation, or any other specific injustice to be found at the time.
Sin is responsible for a fallen world, a marred creation, that is far less than the perfection it was meant to be.
Nobody can get into the mind of God as to why one is saved and another is lost, but only to trust in His revelation that His ultimate plan will wipe away every tear.

[wolf63]

I don't believe in God but I accept that to some people their God(s) and religion are important.

That said - this guy got a fitting punishment for a heinous crime. This was more than a temporary blip in his sanity - it took ages to kill and dismember this child, and during all this he popped back to the office!

[Lonnie]

Hi Theland, Sureley though, freedom of thought is the route to sin?.

[jake-the-peg]

Indded Lonnie but have you thought of this.

Is there sin in heaven?

None of us are meant to be without it - after all we are meant to be created with freewill that causes sin.

If there is no sin in heaven there can be no free will.

But maybe God has a magic way of resolving this conflict so that people can enjoy a sinless existance in heaven - If so why did he not create the Earth like that?

The only possible explanation is because he wanted man to sin.



Oh there is of course one other explanation - It's all a fairy story

[naomi24]

The only possible explanation is because he wanted man to sin.

Seems that way. I wonder why? What would his purpose be? It's certainly an enigma.

[keyplus90]

I do not think he was insane, that is an excuse used now a days to escape punishment. Then of course we can see the difference between then and now. At that time punishment was hanging so it tells you that these sort of incident (murder) were not common. Now a days those punishments do not exist, so just look around you.

Now towards God factor. What few people think gives the idea that they want God to intervene into ever thing, even if a worker at local McDonalds is going to sprinkle a bit too much salt on fries then there and then God should appear next to the fryer and tell him off otherwise he may give many people hypertension and death due to that. So God is not the character from TV comedy show my hero.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/myhero/index.shtml


I was watching a programme on animal planet other day when the camera woman (presenter) saw a lion heading towards a lost cub of a cheetah. She was worried that the lion would probably kill the cub and said that she felt like driving towards lion to scare him off but did not do that. Because that is part of rules and regulations there that you should not intervene because this is all natural process.

God has created people and given them free will and also has explained what is good and what is bad through his messengers. From there on it is a test. Had he wished to create every one so perfect and without free will then why did he need human. He had perfect example in angels.

[naomi24]

You don't think he was insane? This wasn't simply murder carried out in anger in the heat of the moment - this was the horrific and deliberate mutiliation of an innocent child - and if that's the act of a sane man, then we really must weep for humankind.

[tigerlily11]

If you are raised in an enviroment of love and care then there is a strong possibility that you will turn out a decent human being. In most case past,life events will dictate how we behave in adulthood.
But in some case there is insanity. The inability for the brain to see reason.
This is not always obvious to those in contact with this person.
I'm talking from experiance with one such individual.
I personally don't understand why some people get to this state or why God would let it happen.
Prehaps, as horrid as it is, it is a way of teaching us right from wrong. I don't know.
It is for us to decide how we choose to treat these people. Do we become like them and deprive them of their lives or seek to find out why this has happened and deal with it from there. After all we cannot stop things like this from happening if we do not have these people to study and maybe thats what we should be consentrating on. If for what ever reason God has allowed us free reign the we need to start using our heads and deal with it.
If we just keep kiling them then we learn nothing a children like Fanny Adams go on dieing.
We must decide for ourselves to make the law that if you take some one elses life for no other reason than it satisfies some weirdness in you, or for money, then you lose any human rights you have.
You then become subject to A) the study of why you did this and B) the advancement of the well being of human kind.
This may go some way to making something of what is otherwise a senseless and horrific act.

[jake-the-peg]

Maybe such evil is God's way of letting us know he doesn't exist.

Or worse still he does and doesn't care.

The age of faith and miracles has passed - maybe God just lost interest with us and went away

[keyplus90]

So Naomi � according to you the one who murder someone and walks away should be considered sane and be punished. And the one who murders, mutilates, cuts the pieces of the body should be considered insane and as a result be given less punishment. Is that what you are saying?

[joggerjayne]

Someone "like" Lord Longford might come along.

But not Lord Longford himself.

As he's dead.

Unless the way that God "fitted in" was to send him back.

[naomi24]

No, that isn't what I'm saying, but the circumstances must be taken into consideration. In France, they used to call murder carried out in the heat of the moment a 'Crime of Passion'. (I don't know if they still call it that). A murder committed in such circumstances is not the same as a murder as described in Lonnie's link, and nor is it the same as a murder carried out for other reasons, eg hatred, revenge, jealously, money. This murder was committed without rhyme or reason - and it wasn't just murder - it was mutilation. A sane person, in certain circumstances, may well commit murder, but he wouldn't feel the need to mutilate the body, and therefore this particular crime had to be the result of pure madness.

[Doc.Spock.1]

What worries me most is that keyplus actually believes what he writes !

[keyplus90]

Of course I believe and do what I write as I am not hypocrite. Doc, has your nursery teacher gone on tea break again.

OK Naomi - I agree with you, Next time if I see a killer or killer to be, I would probably tell him don't just kill, mutilate as well as by doing that you have a better chance of being judged not guilty as you should be able to claim that you were insane.

Perhaps it is already happening.

[monkeyeyes]

Keyplus - Are there any killers, who, you can look back on with 20/20 hindsight and claim were definitely sane/insane, or the other way round in respect of their heinous crimes ?

I'd really be interested to konow 'who' and 'why' ?