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God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens
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I'm halfway through reading this and up to now, am very impressed. Has anyone else read it? Any thoughts?
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Keyplus, Naomi � You think that I refused to read anything that challenges my belief. And it is your own perception that I (along with) all the other people who believe in religion have shut their eyes. Yes one thing is sure that I do not want to waste my time on books where someone would say that because Hitler or Stalin killed many people in the name of religion so we do not believe in religion or God.
If I'm mistaken, please tell us what, apart from Islamic literature, and bits of the bible, you have read.
And how can you judge any book a waste of time unless you've read it? If you haven't read it, then you can't possibly offer a valid opinion on it.
If I'm mistaken, please tell us what, apart from Islamic literature, and bits of the bible, you have read.
And how can you judge any book a waste of time unless you've read it? If you haven't read it, then you can't possibly offer a valid opinion on it.
Yet you berate her on what she has and hasn't read everytime- and always come back to my book is better than yours?
Why don't you read a few of these books like the god delusion or the above mentioned and then come back with valid points on where they go wrong, misrepresentations or outright lies which can be found in most holy books.
Until then Shut up moaning when they bring up a valid point which you can't answer and you have to retreat into "my god is better than yours and you are wrong because you disagree with me" mode
Why don't you read a few of these books like the god delusion or the above mentioned and then come back with valid points on where they go wrong, misrepresentations or outright lies which can be found in most holy books.
Until then Shut up moaning when they bring up a valid point which you can't answer and you have to retreat into "my god is better than yours and you are wrong because you disagree with me" mode
Thank you for that, Sherman. It�s very much appreciated. We always seem to reach a point where Keyplus becomes irritated because he is unable to answer questions that his own posts have instigated. It�s odd that having read the Koran, and disagreed with it, Keyplus intimates that my copy is an inaccurate translation and therefore my opinion is wrong. At the same time, many of us have read a multitude of books, most of them extremely well-written and well-researched, and none of which he is familiar with, but they, according to him, are also wrong. It would appear that of all the books in the world, only the version of the Koran that Keyplus approves is worth reading. I wonder why he doesn�t follow the Koran�s very sensible advice and make every effort to gain knowledge, be it Islamic or otherwise - or would that be just too scary? Merely a thought.
Does anyone have any views on jno�s link?
Does anyone have any views on jno�s link?
As naomi says, it really is tedious that I should have to explain that the books on my shelves comprise, as well as those by Dawkins, Harris, Peter Medawar, Michael Sherman, Hitchens (now), and many others containing scepticism regarding religion and other weird beliefs, but also several versions of the whole Bible and the NT, three 'ripostes' to The God Delusion, eight books about the life and death of Jesus written by believers, a book called in six days written by 50 scientists all of whom are creationists, a commentary on the Koran, two books listing all the gods and religions in the world with their beliefs, and a general pot-pourri on the subject of religion. Also my hard-drive would reveal many real-mail serious correspondences with religionists of the sort of length impossible on AB.
I must be daft to be saying all this.
I must be daft to be saying all this.
OK. I have taken the advice of few well versed people here and just ordered few books.
1. God delusion - by Richard Dawkins
2. The Dawkins delusion - by Alister Mcgrath and
3. The language of God - by Francis colin
But I am sure these books will not tell me anything that I already do not know. Because I can tell what would be in these books.
First one would definitely say something similar to because thousands of people died in earthquake so god does not exist. And that is exactly I always hear from the people who have read these books and they call it knowledge. That even makes my kids laugh and they say that what on earth people dieing in disasters has to do with non existence of God. Actually it is a sign of the shortness of this life and even that itself is a sign of the existence of God. I am sure I would ask you questions once after I have read these books but what your answers would be I can already guess as I have heard all that before.
1. God delusion - by Richard Dawkins
2. The Dawkins delusion - by Alister Mcgrath and
3. The language of God - by Francis colin
But I am sure these books will not tell me anything that I already do not know. Because I can tell what would be in these books.
First one would definitely say something similar to because thousands of people died in earthquake so god does not exist. And that is exactly I always hear from the people who have read these books and they call it knowledge. That even makes my kids laugh and they say that what on earth people dieing in disasters has to do with non existence of God. Actually it is a sign of the shortness of this life and even that itself is a sign of the existence of God. I am sure I would ask you questions once after I have read these books but what your answers would be I can already guess as I have heard all that before.
Keyplus, well done for ordering the books. However, you've made a mistake since only The God Delusion is written from an anti-religious perspective. The Dawkins Delusion, as I have already mentioned, is an attempt to denigrate Richard Dawkins, and I haven't read The Language of God, but I've googled it and it seems that rather than presenting an anti-religious viewpoint, it offers evidence for belief. I would therefore advise you to order the book that is the subject of this question too.
You appear to be determined not to believe a word you are about to read, but I would say that you are mistaken in assuming that you already know what books such as the God Delusion or God is not Great, will tell you. I can assure you, you do not. Few such books claim that because earthquakes happen, there is no God. Their authors are educated people who have researched their subject very thoroughly, and are far too intelligent to resort to presenting such mundane and inane arguments.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts, especially on the God Delusion, and also, hopefully, on God is not Great. I may even order The Language of God myself, just to see what the author has to say on the subject. At least then I'll know what you're talking about if you present any argument arising from it.
You appear to be determined not to believe a word you are about to read, but I would say that you are mistaken in assuming that you already know what books such as the God Delusion or God is not Great, will tell you. I can assure you, you do not. Few such books claim that because earthquakes happen, there is no God. Their authors are educated people who have researched their subject very thoroughly, and are far too intelligent to resort to presenting such mundane and inane arguments.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts, especially on the God Delusion, and also, hopefully, on God is not Great. I may even order The Language of God myself, just to see what the author has to say on the subject. At least then I'll know what you're talking about if you present any argument arising from it.
naomi24
Wed 07/01/09
08:57 Question Author
Keyplus, well done for ordering the books. However, you've made a mistake since only The God Delusion is written from an anti-religious perspective. The Dawkins Delusion, as I have already mentioned, is an attempt to denigrate Richard Dawkins,
You really believed I did not know what I was ordering, didn�t you?
I ordered The other book because I wanted to find out what the others are saying about Richard Dawkins. And I do know that the other author (Mcgrath) is a scientist as well.
Sherman � I am just trying not to give you any importance as I am sure you do not know me so you are allowed to assume whatever you feel like.
Wed 07/01/09
08:57 Question Author
Keyplus, well done for ordering the books. However, you've made a mistake since only The God Delusion is written from an anti-religious perspective. The Dawkins Delusion, as I have already mentioned, is an attempt to denigrate Richard Dawkins,
You really believed I did not know what I was ordering, didn�t you?
I ordered The other book because I wanted to find out what the others are saying about Richard Dawkins. And I do know that the other author (Mcgrath) is a scientist as well.
Sherman � I am just trying not to give you any importance as I am sure you do not know me so you are allowed to assume whatever you feel like.
Keyplus. Just another thought. If you are genuinely willing to look at the other side of the coin, why order a book that you know has been written for the sole purpose of discrediting someone? Before you've even read a book written by any athiest, it seems you are seeking something that will support your determinedly pre-conceived ideas. The Dawkins Delusion holds nothing in the way of information or education, so don't you think you should read The God Delusion and form your own opinion rather than depend upon someone who is of the same determined mindset as you to form an opinion for you?
This one thing I could never understand when people say don�t listen to others and make your own mind up. And I asked this question before Naomi. Were you born with all what you know today? Or did you hear, see or learn something from someone who you thought was right, before making up your mind. And I am sure you and many others have accepted here that they changed their mind at some stage of life. Did that change of mind take place after they had a dream or got struck by lightining? Or did that happen because they yet again heard, saw or learnt something new that proved previous things wrong.
So before I have even looked at these books, you are trying to influence my input by telling me what to read and what to avoid. Is that a sign of a person whop calls himself/herself open minded?
So before I have even looked at these books, you are trying to influence my input by telling me what to read and what to avoid. Is that a sign of a person whop calls himself/herself open minded?
Now I have taken advice, so don�t you take advice and read �Islam and the destiny of man� by Charles Le Gai Eaton. You may learn something new.
Here is the link if you want to order it.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Islam-Destiny-Man-Char les-Eaton/dp/0946621470
Here is the link if you want to order it.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Islam-Destiny-Man-Char les-Eaton/dp/0946621470
No, Keyplus, I wasn�t born with the knowledge I have today. When I was a child, I listened to my teachers and I believed everything they told me - and then I grew up.
Your other question raises interesting issues, and deserves a separate posting - so I�ll post it.
I�m not trying to influence your reading matter - but since you haven�t read anything like this before, I�m simply trying to advise you. If you want to waste your time reading someone�s inane ramblings, and learning absolutely nothing, that�s your choice. Go ahead - but I�ll tell you now, The Dawkins Delusion doesn�t offer any answers to The God Delusion, so if that�s what you�re hoping for, you�re in for a big disappointment.
Have you read the book you�ve recommended? I�ll order it tonight.
Your other question raises interesting issues, and deserves a separate posting - so I�ll post it.
I�m not trying to influence your reading matter - but since you haven�t read anything like this before, I�m simply trying to advise you. If you want to waste your time reading someone�s inane ramblings, and learning absolutely nothing, that�s your choice. Go ahead - but I�ll tell you now, The Dawkins Delusion doesn�t offer any answers to The God Delusion, so if that�s what you�re hoping for, you�re in for a big disappointment.
Have you read the book you�ve recommended? I�ll order it tonight.
I know you most probably will use this in the future whenever you refer to me or my knowledge. But one thing I never have done, and never will do, I do not tell lies as I do believe that later on its always difficult to cover them up, whereas truth is truth and you do not have to tell more lies to cover it up. After saying all this, there are not many complete books (even on Islam) that I have read. In Lahore (Pakistan) at the college age, we few friends used to go to a local library (not all can afford books) and there we used to read a monthly Urdu magazine sepecific about this topic. One thing I can assure that it had famous extracts of all the famous communist (as they are known there) writer, including Darwin, Rushdie, tariq Ali, Douglass Kennedy, Hitchens, Sir Golding, Huxley and many more. And yes before you ask, in Pakistan this sort of literature is available. So I do have basic information what few people believe in, and I am also aware that the basics are still the same and only few new writers have come up with new ideas, which in fact I will cover up now as I have started. Any way as they say life begins at 40, so my age of reading these sorts of books has just started. But one thing I have done a lot is watching informative TV chanels. And there are many around now.
