God and America

[ludwig]

What with all the hoo-ha going on in America at the moment, I was wondering - will there ever be an openly atheist president? or is that actually a bigger barrier to cross than the racial one?

[USALady]

Oh no! By no means am I suggesting that! No one should endure that type of treatment in a relationship and that was the smartest thing for her to do. What I meant was that just because we go to church and praise the Lord, we are still sinners and will continue to sin regardless. I would hope that a true, converted Christian would not commit the sins that wibble56 indicated but it is possible as we all face temptation.

[naomi24]

Well, that's a relief! I thought for one awful moment you were saying she should have stayed married to him. :o)

(I don't agree that we are all sinners - but that's neither here nor there in this context).

[WaldoMcFroog]

Funny how the only people who think Obama's beliefs are 'up in the air' are other Christians, isn't it?

[Whickerman]

my query would be the validity of the belief that there's a separation of church and state in the US. I do understand that each individual - even the president - is entitled to their personal beliefs, that's no issue or problem to me.

But when the president of a country is sworn in on a bible and declares 'so help me god' in the oath; has a citizenship swear allegiance to the flag using words like 'one nation under god', has a currency declaring 'In God we Trust' etc etc, then surely there can be no claim of separation between politics and religion?

[USALady]

WaldoMcFroog: I think, you interpreted what I said incorrectly. What I meant by Obama's belief being up in the air, I meant it's not really been confirmed one way or the other if he is muslim, christian, or anything else. Again, even if he is an atheist, I don't think that has anything to do with him being a good (or not good) president. He is a smart man and may be one of the best we've had so far!

[naomi24]

Do all Christians see the beliefs of Christians of other denominations as up in the air? USALady has already said that there was uproar when a Mormon announced his candidacy. Perhaps it�s a great pity that Obama isn�t a declared atheist. If he was, religion wouldn�t be a consideration, he wouldn�t have to appease, or please, anyone, and he could just get on with the job as he should.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Obama has repeatedly stated he is a Christian. It's in black and white in his biography.

[naomi24]

That's very true, Waldo, but I get the impression that whether he's totally acceptable, or not, rather depends upon which flavour of Christianity he prefers.

[MWB]

USAlady. How do you know Obama may be "one of the best we've had so far"? He's only been in a day! What are you basing that statement on?

Anyway, that's been said of many new presidents & look how some of them turned out!

[MrJolly]

Barack Obama is exactly what he appears to be: the right person of the right colour in the right place at the right time. Whether he is an atheist or not is irrelevant. All that is needed is for enough people in high places to prod him in the right direction and to write for him appropriate speeches so that the American people continue to believe that he is the closest thing to the second coming of Christ. they are ever likely to see.

[jake-the-peg]

Pete Stark was the first openly atheist member of Congress in America

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Stark

He announced his atheism in 2007



Octavious

It was rather difficult to be an out and out atheist in the 18th Century - there simply wasn't the intellectual framework for it.

It was a time before Darwin, before Cosmology before the age of the Eath was known, before we even knew Dinosaurs even existed.

Most of the people then who would today be atheists were Deists.

They rejected established notions of religion, but in the lack of alternative explanation went for a rather vague picture of a creator - quite well summed up as Spinoza's God.

At this time this is about as far as you get. It was dangerous to be an atheist - some like Jean Messlier left documents for after their death but you have to wait really for the 19th Century to find open atheists.

[Octavius]

In any event, does it matter? As MrJolly has said very well, he/she (whichever president) will be judged on their actions during their presidency and on any sound bites that titillate the global media machine. Whether they are black, white, Christian, Muslim, atheist, or homosexual and wanted to go public about it, I couldn't really give two cahoots. It is what they do that matters. Unless they do something that detrimentally affects people globally purely for religious/atheist reasons, then it matters.

Obviously I am not American though.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Like decide to go to war with another country because God told them it was the right thing to do, for example?

[Octavius]

Exactly.

[ludwig]

Octavius - 'Does it matter?'. No, not really, it doesn't affect their ability to do the job.
However, the question was more about whether the Americans would ever elect a candidate who declared themselves to be atheist up front, or as I said, would this be a greater barrier for them to overcome than the racial one.

[naomi24]

From what USALady says, ludwig, it seems it would.

[Octavius]

Because according to statistics and surveys, most Americans want to know the person leading the nation has a belief in God.

A Gallup poll carried out in 1999 found that between 48 and 49 percent of Americans would vote for an otherwise-qualified atheist in the presidential race. It would just seem the only thing preventing testing that theory is an out and out atheist standing for election as an atheist.