ANY PSYCHICS ON HERE?

[tinkerbell23]

PLEASE NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS. JUST WONDERING X

[jomifl]

If we accept that some kind of spirit continues to exist after the death of a person and that this spirit can manifest itself in some kind of visible form, what is the manifestation composed of? The reason I ask is that nobody is going to convince me that a long grey dress and a white shawl are have spirits and manifest themselves simultaneously. The point I am making is that the manifestations occur in the mind of the beholder otherwise the ghosts would all be naked and not dressed in the fashion of the day(then or now)

[naomi24]

No amount of discussion here is going to produce a definitive answer, but if I say I've seen a ghost and you can't get your head around that, that isn't my problem. I'm not asking you to believe me, but please don't tell me I haven't seen what I know I've seen.

//......what is the manifestation composed of?//

Some form of residual energy? We just don't know, but personally rather than impede my intellect by limiting it to the barriers of current knowledge, I will continue to consider all potential possibilities. I know what I've experienced, but I don't know what it was or what caused it. If lack of experience leads you to slam the door shut then so be it, but I know there is something happening in this world for which we have no explanation and I think that warrants continued investigation.

[ludwig]

I see we're back to this perennial discussion.

I wouldn't mind but the same guys (the ones who demand hard evidence before they'll even think about considering the possibility of anything) will go off to the science section later, and have a serious discussion about whether the universe is shaped like a doughnut - without a hint of irony.

[NazNomad]

Mmmmmm DONUT. :-)

[jomifl]

Strangely Naomi it is my experience not the lack of it that has led me to the conclusion that not all that we think we see is real. If I want to know the temperature I use a thermometer, human progress is based on the removal of subjectivity, how much progress did we make under the yoke of christian dogma? I have thought that I have seen many things and people that no longer exist but I know that that is just wishful thinking. We see what we want to see, we see what we expect to see

[cazzz1975]

ah I see the negative contributors were determined to turn this thread into an argument :/

[naomi24]

Jomifl, I'll put this as politely as possible. Utter rubbish! So you've concluded that because you have suffered delusions anyone who claims to have experienced unexplained phenomena must automatically suffer from the same affliction. Not exactly rationality at it's finest is it.

[jomifl]

Well cazz that would depend on your understanding of 'negative' is believing that nothing doesn't exist any more negative than believing that something does exist?

[chakka35]

naomi, you still appear to be saying that if I don't know whether something is true or not I should keep an open mind. But if what I don't know about is utterly absurd and has no evidence to back it up, it is perfectly fair to dismiss it until someone comes along with some evidence that one can work on.
Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence. There is no sort of evidence at all for any of these 'psychic' experiences.

Anecdotes and beliefs are not evidence, neither is the number of believers. (How many once believed that the world was flat?)

When you say you saw a ghost I would not dream of calling you a liar and I know that you are not stupid. But the rest of the world cannot tell what other explanations might fit your case. So even from you it is just another claim.

If ghosts existed there would, after all these millennia, be evidence for them. There is none.

[jomifl]

Naomi.. I'll put this as politely as possible. Utter rubbish! So you've concluded that because you have suffered delusions anyone who claims to have experienced unexplained phenomena must automatically suffer from the same affliction. Not exactly rationality at it's finest is it.

[naomi24]

Chakka //If ghosts existed there would, after all these millennia, be evidence for them.//

Why? That has to be just about the silliest statement I've heard coming from a presumably scientific mind. It's on a par with ''Well, I don't know how it happened so God must have dunnit'', because it assumes we already know everything there is to know - and we don't. I've never asked you to believe me, but you can rest assured I don't tell lies and neither do I expect intelligent people to insult my intelligence by telling my claims are utterly absurd. You know no more about the subject than the next man. You just think you do.

[NazNomad]

Wow, Naomi posted jomifl's exact words 5 hours before ... now if that's not phychic, then what was it? ;-)

[naomi24]

Jomifl, nice try but ill thought out so not that smart because it falls at the first hurdle. I've never said that every claim made is genuine. In fact I think most people who think they see or hear ghosts, or experience some other "supernatural" phenomena are either prone to delusions - just as you were - or are possibly experiencing the result of defective plumbing. In fact not so long ago I solved a claimed supernatural experience through these very pages. I'm the first to look for natural causes!

[naomi24]

Naz, so you picked up on that, did you? Spooky! Cards, tealeaves, crystal balls? Nah, maybe not. :o)

[NazNomad]

I think we can safely call it ''other''. :-)

[jomifl]

Naomi.. what was the ill thought out bit in what you said, it all seemed perfectly rational to me..

[naomi24]

Perhaps you should read it again in the context it was originally written.

[ludwig]

I don't know why you don't get it Naomi, it's pefectly simple - jomifl knows that ghosts don't exist, therefore anyone who thinks they saw one must be wrong.
The logic is crystal clear - which part of it do you not understand?

[NazNomad]

"... jomifl knows that ghosts don't exist"

jomifl THINKS that ghosts don't exist, I haven't seen any research from jomifl that concludes either way.

[ludwig]

Hang on a minute, now you come to mention it - neither have I....so it's a bit cheeky of him to call people deluded when he doesn't actually know the truth himself.