When Atheism becomes inhumane

[naomi24]

I spent a couple of hours today with a very dignified elderly gentleman who told me practically his life history. Brought up in an orphanage, adopted, and subsequently dreadfully mistreated, he left home at 15 to make his own way in the world. He survived a broken marriage, married again, and is now settled, very respectable, and reliant upon his faith to sustain him psychologically. He is aware of my complete and utter disdain for organised religion, but I have to say I was gentle with him because how can I, as someone who cares desperately about the plight of humanity, justify demolishing with reasoned and demonstrably provable argument this man's very personal shelter from the harshness of reality? Fellow atheists - please - tell me.

[piggynose]

Amen

[Nadis]

Oops! sorry Naomi, Is this all hypothetical.....is that the right word?
Your not actually going to tell the chap what we said?

[naomi24]

Tell him what you said? Why on earth would I do that? No, it isn't hypothetical. It's a question to other atheists.

[Nadis]

I meant hypothetical in the sense that you wanted answers from other atheists as to not tell or try to influence the gentleman's beliefs.
You have no need to justify anything as you are not hurting the elderly chap if you don't tell him anything.
If all atheists have the same or similar idea on there not being a god in the biblical sense then anything we say or you is not going to change that man's view.
Why would you want to if he's happy? If he wanted to change his view to yours he would ask you more about it.
Why would any atheist want to justify changing an elderly mans belief unless it was doing him or others harm.

[Nadis]

Then again to look at it another way, you could be hurting him or others if you don't tell him your truths but that is up to him to decide what is best.

[naomi24]

Nadis, what I said to him, or intend saying to him, is completely irrelevant. The question is what would other atheists say to him.

[jd_1984]

I could certainly provide a reasoned argument, and sorry if you think I am taking the safe road by sitting on the fence. My point, yes simple, was just to say that we all search for peace and contentment in our lives and will take different avenues, approaches and follow various organised and non organised ways of acheiving such. No disrespect to anyone. Being a good and decent person, in my opinion, counts more than what or who you believe in.
And for the record, I struggle to comprehend the notion of a God and God's plan but will welcome other peoples views without prejudice!!

[naomi24]

jd, you misunderstand me. I was referring to your 'ouch' comment. :o)

[jake-the-peg]

I certainly woulnt try to pull his faith from him any more than I'd try to tear a child's comfort blanket away.

Are you planning to go around primary schools proudly telling the under 5's that santa doesn't exist as an encore?

[jd_1984]

Ahh, sorry I assumed you meant my previuos comment was a bit vague! I wasnt being retaliatory or anything like that, just felt obliged to expand a bit

[237SJ]

In answer to the original question. I don`t think anyone should rubbish somebody else`s religious beliefs. As you say, some people find great comfort in their religion for many reasons and I certainly would not try to take that away from them.

[Nadis]

If it's irrelevent then why ask the question?
You said you wanted to justify what you said to the gentleman but asking other atheists who may not agree with your view is leading you back to your original question with no conclusion.
Surely in your care for the plight of humanity, leaving an elderly gentleman to make his own mind up on his beliefs (he probably has already) is the best thing to do.
What other people say on here isn't going to change his view or yours.
You have been in this man's shoes and shared harsh experiences in your life but you were probably at an age and have the strength to be that inquisitive to find out more and drop the idea of the biblical god. Maybe all the man has been through, doesn't have the strength or curiosity to want to change his beliefs.
If he did, he'd give you a call.

[naomi24]

Jake, I suggest you attempt to comprehend the question before making not so smart comments.

Nadis, I didn't say I wanted to justify what I said to the gentleman. Had I attempted to demolish his faith, then perhaps - but I didn't and so had nothing to justify. I suggest you also attempt to comprehend the question before making not so smart comments.

[Nadis]

But you did say how can you justify demolishing with reason the man's shelter be it his belief from the harshness of reality. So after your conversation with the gentleman did you wonder how other atheists would ask to be able to open the man's eyes to a cruel world by telling him his faith in god is flawed by reason.
And my comments were not rude or trying to be awkward or egotistical. Only trying to comprehend what other atheists or yourself could do or why they would want to put forth reasons to sway an elderly gentleman's belief if he is happy knowing what he knows. Would you want someone to demolish your belief if your life was the same as the man's and felt that his god was his only comfort?

[Nadis]

Incidentally, I think your comment about making not so smart comments wasn't very smart or.... kind.
I never said anything to you to incite such a remark but now I probably have.

[mibn2cweus]

Jake, If you haven't personally engaged in the practice of lying to innocent little children, betraying their trust and contaminating their young vulnerable minds with perversions of reality then you have nothing to worry about.

[naomi24]

Nadis, When a question is entitled 'When Atheism becomes Inhumane' one would imagine that anyone with a modicum of intelligence would gain a pretty strong indication of the subject matter. However, you, like several others here haven't taken the trouble to think about that, but have misinterpreted the question to the extent that despite the fact I made no attempt to dispel my companion's religious beliefs, that has been completely ignored - and indeed reversed. Having said all that I get the impression that more than anyone else here, in an effort to maintain your consistently argumentative stance, you are determined to continue to misunderstand, and therefore I have no intention of indulging your irrelevant arguments further. If you want to ask me questions that are unrelated to this thread, ask them separately and I will answer them.

I'm wondering if there are any more atheists who would like to tell me what they would have said in the circumstances, because, let's face it, that's all I wanted to know in the first place.

Incidentally, you may be surprised to learn that I've had several discussions with this man - always about religion - and always at his instigation. He loves our debates. In actual fact I think he's quite determined to convert me. :o)

We're going out to dinner tonight so I'm off to polish my horns and brush my tail. Damn! I chipped my hoof polish!

[jomifl]

People can believe what they like, if they don't ask for an argument why give them one. My only dispute is with people who claim to know unsupportable 'truths' and use them to exploit others for any number of reasons.

[jwong]

I was told a very long time ago I could not help everyone in the world. There are lots of people in the world so one way is to let him continue believing if it is of benefit to him. When he passes over, the truth will be known whatever that may be. If he was to be disproved the negatives could outweigh the positives so let him believe what he considers the truth.