Arming British Police

[retrocop]

Forgive me for putting this in News when I do not supply some link to invite you to debate this thread.
Earlier today on LBC radio it was asked if we think, in light of Paris, that British police should be armed permanently.
If gunmen burst into the Savoy Hotel would it be better that a local copper had a firearm rather than hide in a corner and radio for armed back up from an ARV who could be 9 minutes plus away? Remember Lee Rigby. Officers on scene but unarmed and powerless until ARV arrived.
Not all police officers feel happy about carrying firearms. I can respect that decision although as a member of a unit that carried a H&K MP5 single shot 9mm carbine plus a Glock 9mm for the last 20yrs of my service I was none too happy about some of my colleagues who never loaded their weapons and locked them in the glove box of the vehicles they travelled in.
We are told we have members of the Special Recognicance Regiment patrolling in plain clothes around London along with armed plain clothes police officers. Allegedly the army officers are not armed. I hope that is not true. Why bother to have them? Of course we have an army member arrested for murder during terrorist troubles years ago so perhaps the SRR are not happy with the so called rules of engagement the H.O. wish to saddle them with.
There are many ex police/army firearms trained personnel living in London
and other towns/cities. Would you feel safer knowing that there may be an armed gentleman dining next to you who would be happy to intervene should a terrorist storm your restaurant.
It isn't that stupid or laughable. The LDV/Homeguard (Dad's Army) were entrusted with firearms to protect their countrymen in times of war.
Obviously some older gentlemen would have to be tested as to their capability in possessing and using a firearm in a close quarter situation but do any body think there may be some merit in the suggestion that sensible ,capable persons who have been trained in the use of firearms be allowed to carry them covertly and use them to protect their fellow citizens?
r

[retrocop]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
With regard to above. You may not know that certain police officers ,because of the sensitivity of their operations they were once engaged in , carry a covert handgun for protection of themselves and others even though they are retired,

[Baldric]

Apart from The Falklands I am admitting nothing, would I be prepared to carry a weapon again,
yes I would.

[Hypognosis]

H&K would look great on my internet search history, retrocop. ;o)

So I won't Google. Are they German?

Are there any British manufacturers who could get the gig?

[Mamyalynne]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP5

[retrocop]

Balders
I have never killed a living ,breathing thing in my life although gentleman from Bradbury Lines taught me with my tart's handbag pistol (S&W 5 shot Model 36 .38 special) to do so should the need arise. We elevated to punchier 9mm stuff later.
I am not a geriatric gung ho Rambo by any means but I still feel I can be of some use to my fellow man/woman's protection.


mn

[Baldric]

In some respects I wish I could say that, however I can't, and can't go back, I did what had to be done at the time, and no more so I guess that's ok as it goes. would I do it again, yes if needed!

[retrocop]

Sorry. H&K stands for Heckler and Koch German firearms manufacture.
They supply British police forces with a short barrelled carbine .Model MP5(A).It is a self loading 9mm weapon and does not fire burst/automatic fire. The non designated(A) Military version does. The Kurtz (short) fires single,3 round burst, or full auto burst.
The weapon parts are manufactured in Germany but have to be assembled in UK.
Heckler and Koch had to put the awful British Army Enfield built SA80 into some sort of useful weapon when it was first manufactured.
Very much like a civil servant(as described) "Does not work and cannot be fired"

[retrocop]

Balders
Course you would and so would I if that challenge presented it self. I am sure.

[Baldric]

My choice now would be a Walther PPK, always a favourite, and something my OH knows how to use if I can't.

[Hypognosis]

@retrocop

I assure you Civil Servants *can* be fired. Plenty of potential rule breaches which can lead to a gross misconduct dismissal (hence why political correctness is so rife). It isn't possible to jack up an individuals work targets beyond that of their colleagues without it coming to the attention of the union representative, so getting them to perform poorly has to be achieved by... other means.

[retrocop]

My choice also. 9mm version. Hated the Glock. Loved the Colt .45ACP and the Beretta replacement for U.S, Military.
Going back to my question. How happy would ABers feel if an old git, albeit still safe and capable of using a firearm safely and responsibly be next to them in social surroundings and be prepared to protect them and their company should the need arise.? I am not suggesting US style right to bear arms for everybody but solely for those who have the mental aptitiude and skill/training to use them ?

[ummmm]

I would hate this country to be armed.

[retrocop]

Hypognosis
You do not, obviously, understand military banter! Oh well .Your loss. I am sure Baldric is having a titter at your long and needless explanations about civil servants and trade unions. Trade Unions? What are they ? :-)

[retrocop]

Ummmm
We are armed. The armed forces actually carry arms.!! Sorry :-(

[SirOracle]

I can see your hypothesis Retro,but I am really against it.

I feel that having more people on the streets albeit police and or ex-military, could lead to more criminals arming themselves. I look at the situation in the USA and frankly wouldn't like it here. As you know the powers that be in the USA are trying (unsuccessfully) to have the number of guns reduced radically.

[Baldric]

Sadly I do know what TU's are, I just don't understand what possible use they are to anyone who is capable of thinking for themselves.

[ummmm]

I meant general bobbies on the beat.

[Ouzel]

Here, in Scotland, there has been concern about armed police attending routine calls - including drink-driving offences and missing persons searches.

So I doubt if the suggestion that arming members of the public, no matter how trained and competent they are, would go down well.

[baza]

TU's had and still have their uses even today,however , I do not feel comfortable with geriatric rambo's sitting next to me in a Wimpy.

[Baldric]

I think Bobbies on the Beat should be armed, I also think that before they are they should be subject to a far more intrusive check than they are now.