The Noes Have It

[vetuste_ennemi]

..what now? May talks Let's find out?

[jim360]

What counts as "reasonable" from the EU is debatable -- one might be forgiven for thinking, based on reading what David Davis spews out, for example, that the only thing reasonable from the EU is capitulation.

[naomi24]

I see little in the way of capitulation from the EU. Their way is their way.

[jim360]

Well, they've given more ground than you give them credit for. But my point is that I don't think that the hard Brexit supporters in Parliament want anything less than a total surrender. There's no resolution to their key sticking points than the EU -- and, in particular, that the Irish government -- will accept.

But all of this is moot as long as Theresa May remains leader. She should have gone after the last election, when she lost her authority and majority in Parliament.

[naomi24]

Jim, // But my point is that I don't think that the hard Brexit supporters in Parliament want anything less than a total surrender.//

Surrender what? Hard Brexiters simply want to resign membership of the club. They’re not interfering with the EU’s right to carry on clubbing without us.

[Khandro]

"In the Netherlands, Volkskrant columnist Bert Wagendorp was particularly brutal: “It is almost certainly the case that in recent European history, absent a threat of actual war, no country has landed itself in such complete and utter chaos,” he wrote.

“The oldest parliament in the world after Iceland’s is in one hell of a state. Brexit has split a once stable country in two and transformed its politicians into lemmings, throwing themselves off the white cliffs into the sea. It’s great theatre – but tragic.”

The Guardian

[jim360]

The key sticking point is the Irish border and how to resolve that. I'm not sure it's worth going over the issue again. But the current solution, ie a "backstop" in the absence of anything else, is what the main complaint from Brexiters is. If you can explain why it is after all not necessary to have *some* solution to it, or how "No Deal" -- and the resulting necessity of a border in Ireland -- is a resolution, then, sure, you're right. But currently all major parties outside the Hard Brexit camp agree that the Backstop is necessary in the absence of any other solution, that it cannot be temporary (or else it wouldn't be any use as a "last resort"), and that No Deal doesn't circumvent this problem either.

So, yes: Hard Brexiters want a capitulation from the EU, requiring it to concede that everything I typed in the last sentence is wrong after all.

[Khandro]

Northern Ireland has been an obstacle and regular pain in the butt for Britain for the last century; did you know that more people have been killed over that period in proportion to its population than in London in the blitz?
It would make soooo much sense if they would amalgamate with the Republic.