ChatterBank4 mins ago
How Can This Be Glibly Dismissed As Project Fear - It's Happening Now Thanks To Brexit.
Seems like we've lost a very valuable trading partner.
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To me it makes chilly reading.
For example
[In the 1980s this is where consensus was reached that Margaret Thatcher’s commitment to the European single market and customs union, along with her labour market reforms, offered a major opportunity for Japanese business. It would allow Britain to be the place where Japan could develop its famed “just-in-time” delivery system by sourcing production across Europe, without tariffs, regulatory and customs checks, and foster the recruitment and management of talent Europe-wide. They took her at her word, and the investment boom that has transformed the British car industry was born.
Today, a new Japanese consensus has formed. The Conservative party and its leaders cannot be trusted. They ignore warnings, break their word and do not understand business – personified by Old Etonians Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. Brexit is a first-order disaster, striking at the heart of how Japanese companies organise themselves as "lean manufacturers. "]
https:/
To me it makes chilly reading.
For example
[In the 1980s this is where consensus was reached that Margaret Thatcher’s commitment to the European single market and customs union, along with her labour market reforms, offered a major opportunity for Japanese business. It would allow Britain to be the place where Japan could develop its famed “just-in-time” delivery system by sourcing production across Europe, without tariffs, regulatory and customs checks, and foster the recruitment and management of talent Europe-wide. They took her at her word, and the investment boom that has transformed the British car industry was born.
Today, a new Japanese consensus has formed. The Conservative party and its leaders cannot be trusted. They ignore warnings, break their word and do not understand business – personified by Old Etonians Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. Brexit is a first-order disaster, striking at the heart of how Japanese companies organise themselves as "lean manufacturers. "]
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"37.4% actually, but let's not quibble."
Generous of you, New Judge, but you had every right to quibble. I had 32.2% in my head, but I think I was maybe mixing it up with the 72.2% turnout.
You were correct and I apologise; not least to other Europhiles, as my error brings our entire case into disrepute.
I will do the decent thing, in accordance with Honda's own guidelines, by falling on my sword.
Generous of you, New Judge, but you had every right to quibble. I had 32.2% in my head, but I think I was maybe mixing it up with the 72.2% turnout.
You were correct and I apologise; not least to other Europhiles, as my error brings our entire case into disrepute.
I will do the decent thing, in accordance with Honda's own guidelines, by falling on my sword.
"It's going to be like this from now on tho isn't it. Clear unequivocal evidence of the effect of Brexit being excused by leave voters." And remain voters being blamed for what was never going to happen not happening: The EU crumpling and deciding the UK is so wonderful that it can have the benefits its way.
Look at it this way: Everything is going to be rosy because that was the promise. Any suggestion it will not (and sooner than you think) is anti-British and worse. The non-EU world loves the UK and is waiting for the opportunity to fall at its feet (oh, glorious - an Empire awaits).
Look at it this way: Everything is going to be rosy because that was the promise. Any suggestion it will not (and sooner than you think) is anti-British and worse. The non-EU world loves the UK and is waiting for the opportunity to fall at its feet (oh, glorious - an Empire awaits).
Makes me larff when I see the Remainiacs maintain that the Referendum result was not conclusive enough for them. Only 2%, only 1.5 million votes, blahh, blahh. Had it been done on a constituent by constituent count, just like a GE. it would have been 421 constituents in England and Wales out of 574 voted for Brexit. The figures for Scotland are a little harder to establish but methinks that the ones above point to a pretty large majority in any Parliament. In fact it is a majority of 268 in the House. Is that enough to get motions carried?
That's a fair point, to be sure, although then again since FPTP isn't very democratic either it's not the best rebuttal to use constituency results to motivate your rejection of arguments about the narrow victory.
Also, I don't think it's right to take the turnout into account, as it's not unreasonable to assume that those who didn't vote would probably have split around 50/50 if they even *had* an opinion, rather than the implicit "lazy remainers" that forms the backbone of the argument.
It *was* a narrow result, though, and that's not a matter of controversy. Leave won, but Remainers had an almost equal voice, and their concerns and opinions should have formed a proportionate part of the discussion of how to proceed. This has manifestly not happened.
Also, I don't think it's right to take the turnout into account, as it's not unreasonable to assume that those who didn't vote would probably have split around 50/50 if they even *had* an opinion, rather than the implicit "lazy remainers" that forms the backbone of the argument.
It *was* a narrow result, though, and that's not a matter of controversy. Leave won, but Remainers had an almost equal voice, and their concerns and opinions should have formed a proportionate part of the discussion of how to proceed. This has manifestly not happened.
It's not a case of the non-EU world loving the UK, it's about the whole world being there to agree mutually acceptable deals with, and having the freedom, the ability, to do so. (But most of all it's about escaping the clutches of an unelected elite able to dictate what our nation can do, when they should be just making trade related suggestions one may adopt if agreeable.) One needs to see the reality not embroider to make strawmen exaggerations.
" Leave won, but Remainers had an almost equal voice, and their concerns and opinions should have formed a proportionate part of the discussion of how to proceed."
I've asked before, Jim, and you may have responded, so forgive me if you have. But imagine this:
"Remain won, but Leavers had an almost equal voice, and their concerns and opinions should have formed a proportionate part of the discussion of how to proceed."
What consideration for the Leavers' concerns and opinions would have been accommodated under that scenario?
I've asked before, Jim, and you may have responded, so forgive me if you have. But imagine this:
"Remain won, but Leavers had an almost equal voice, and their concerns and opinions should have formed a proportionate part of the discussion of how to proceed."
What consideration for the Leavers' concerns and opinions would have been accommodated under that scenario?
FPTP is the most democratic representative solution one has come up with yet, provided one doesn't want continual middle-of-the-road government unwilling to apply hard solutions where there are hard issues to solve. Compromise representatives are far from ideal. Coalition governnent should be an emergency short term solution not one the system all but guarantees.
FOOLS !!! Do you think Brexit is really going to happen? Billions of pounds/ euros are at stake, the German car industry, EU fishing, French farming and much more.
The British PM and her negotiator ("teacher's pet" Robbins) have been working for 2 years to prevent it. All the media; BBC, Sky, ITV and most of the press are dedicated to prevent it.
Like the idiots we are, we are being led to believe in a show-biz scenario of hoping that T. May will somehow pull some sort of rabbit out of the bag (which has been pre-arranged for months) for us all to cheer to.
The British electorate are being pissedon.
The British PM and her negotiator ("teacher's pet" Robbins) have been working for 2 years to prevent it. All the media; BBC, Sky, ITV and most of the press are dedicated to prevent it.
Like the idiots we are, we are being led to believe in a show-biz scenario of hoping that T. May will somehow pull some sort of rabbit out of the bag (which has been pre-arranged for months) for us all to cheer to.
The British electorate are being pissedon.
// You seem a little morose.//
Yes, - and with reason. Watching liar and hypocrite Teresa May being welcomed at Sharm el-Sheikh airport as if she were royalty, and being seated opposite Angela Merkel at a meeting in which she was not officially invited and had no reason to be there because Brexit wasn't on the agenda.
If you don't smell rats there's something wrong with your olfactory organ as well as your brain.
Yes, - and with reason. Watching liar and hypocrite Teresa May being welcomed at Sharm el-Sheikh airport as if she were royalty, and being seated opposite Angela Merkel at a meeting in which she was not officially invited and had no reason to be there because Brexit wasn't on the agenda.
If you don't smell rats there's something wrong with your olfactory organ as well as your brain.
> "Remain won, but Leavers had an almost equal voice, and their concerns and opinions should have formed a proportionate part of the discussion of how to proceed."
> What consideration for the Leavers' concerns and opinions would have been accommodated under that scenario?
If it had been 52:48 for Remain, I'd have expected another referendum within the lifetime of the same Parliament i.e. before May 2020. Farage was saying exactly the same when he thought it was 52:48 for Remain. And, unless we had negotiated something better with the EU in the intervening period, I would have expected the next vote to go Leave's way.
> What consideration for the Leavers' concerns and opinions would have been accommodated under that scenario?
If it had been 52:48 for Remain, I'd have expected another referendum within the lifetime of the same Parliament i.e. before May 2020. Farage was saying exactly the same when he thought it was 52:48 for Remain. And, unless we had negotiated something better with the EU in the intervening period, I would have expected the next vote to go Leave's way.
Who the hell can take seriously the idea that Theresa May, who has consistently and loudly refused and rejected out-of-hand any and all attempts to stop the thing from going ahead, is secretly trying to stop Brexit? It's a complete nonsense. Granted, you may not like her interpretation of it -- because that's also a complete nonsense -- but the idea that she's trying to frustrate it is BS. Had she wanted to do that, she would have ruled out No Deal by now, if not from Day 1; she would be supporting a Second Referendum; she wouldn't have rushed to sign Article 50; and she would not have delayed and prevaricated to force her version of Brexit upon the people and upon Parliament.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, albeit for different reasons, that she has messed the process up. But she is no ally of Remainers. Anyone who thinks that she is trying to prevent Brexit has paid no attention at all to what she has done and said, is doing and saying, and continues to do and say.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, albeit for different reasons, that she has messed the process up. But she is no ally of Remainers. Anyone who thinks that she is trying to prevent Brexit has paid no attention at all to what she has done and said, is doing and saying, and continues to do and say.
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