ChatterBank4 mins ago
Muslims
I am gonna have a rant here. Is any one else p1ssed off with the way its going with the Muslims at the moment, they are up in arms about what the pope said, although he seems to be right(churches being burnt and nuns being killed), and they always seem to be protesting about something, am I missing something here, is it just the press highlighting it or are they really just violent?(sorry if i offend anyone but i just dont get it)
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I'm just guessing here....
But I'd estimate that if you worked out a per capita rate of violent acts (divide the number of violent acts by Muslims by the number of all Muslims) and then did the same for BNP supporters, you'd end up being far far more scared by the BNP than by Islam.
Those BNP boys sure do know about hate.
But I'd estimate that if you worked out a per capita rate of violent acts (divide the number of violent acts by Muslims by the number of all Muslims) and then did the same for BNP supporters, you'd end up being far far more scared by the BNP than by Islam.
Those BNP boys sure do know about hate.
Neenyananu, What a thing to say,that the reaction from Jews would have been the same. The leader of Iran has called for the extermination of Israel, worse than anything the Pope has said. Where were the angry ,image burning Jews ? Some Proffesors deny ,in books ,the Holocaust--show me the Rabbi who has demanded the Author's death as was done by Mullahs about Salman Rushdie ?
In your effort to defend the Muslim's you have allowed your imagination free reign.
In your effort to defend the Muslim's you have allowed your imagination free reign.
brionon, I agree with you that the leader of Iran should not have said those things about Israel. And there may have been an over reaction to Salman Rushdie by the mullahs in the past. But time has move on.
The fatwa on Salman Rushdie is lifted (fact)
The mullah that ordered the fatwa khomeini has died (fact)
Salman Rushdie is not dead (fact)
What concerns me is that if we know that writing those things about the prophet Mohammad by Salman Rushdie causes these kinds of reactions from scholars/ clerics/ mullahs throughout the muslim world why do we not learn from this and bridge this gap if possible by refraining to insult their prophet/ god (allah), etc that they worship. Surely that would help prevent us from getting into a dire vicious circle?
The fatwa on Salman Rushdie is lifted (fact)
The mullah that ordered the fatwa khomeini has died (fact)
Salman Rushdie is not dead (fact)
What concerns me is that if we know that writing those things about the prophet Mohammad by Salman Rushdie causes these kinds of reactions from scholars/ clerics/ mullahs throughout the muslim world why do we not learn from this and bridge this gap if possible by refraining to insult their prophet/ god (allah), etc that they worship. Surely that would help prevent us from getting into a dire vicious circle?
Brionon - this is a message board and not a court of law, so I apologise if my exact wording in this case was vague. The point I was trying to make was, that if there were a parallel situation, for example...
If Tony Blair was in Israel and quoted the aforementioned speech by Hitler about Jewish people being a Cancer on society, you would understand if there was a massive outcry accross the world, right? I wouldn't be surprised if death threats were made, although I doubt that they would be reported in the press, being just random angry people and not the intended actions of the majority. So in the sense of *angry* the reaction would be the same. Not the behaviour resulting from the reaction. If you want to get court-of-law about it.
If someone were speaking at the Mobo awards and quoted white supremacist literature which suggested that black people were less evolved... same thing. Anger.
I don't think I have a wild imagination, I just think you've misunderstood the point I was trying to make.
If Tony Blair was in Israel and quoted the aforementioned speech by Hitler about Jewish people being a Cancer on society, you would understand if there was a massive outcry accross the world, right? I wouldn't be surprised if death threats were made, although I doubt that they would be reported in the press, being just random angry people and not the intended actions of the majority. So in the sense of *angry* the reaction would be the same. Not the behaviour resulting from the reaction. If you want to get court-of-law about it.
If someone were speaking at the Mobo awards and quoted white supremacist literature which suggested that black people were less evolved... same thing. Anger.
I don't think I have a wild imagination, I just think you've misunderstood the point I was trying to make.
Death - Al Mumit the Creator of Death - is one of the Islamic names for Allah, and it is this face of Allah that they have kept turned to the West spitting hatred and the doctrine of destruction in our direction for the past 1300 years. Death - death to the Big Satan's, death to the Little Satan's, death to the unbelievers. Death - Muhammad tells us "With the Gardens of Delight the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord. But what of the wrongdoers? Leave this to me. We will lead them to their ruin and Death in ways beyond their knowledge. I shall bear long with them; My stratagem is sure and Our scourge will overtake them". As a matter of interest, here is some calligraphy depicting this from my library which you will not have seen elsewhere.
Kingsway, you clearly have an anti Islamic agenda which is fine - but then at least be honest about it. I guess I will never change your mind any more than you will change mine.
The idea that religions themselves cause wars and destruction is essentialistic - basically meaning that you think the religion exists separately from the people which create it. I don't subscribe to this view. All religions have doctrines and teachings which promote violence, as well as those which promote peace.
Islam has not promoted violence for 1,300 years. For most of the last millenia (with the notable exception of this century) Muslim people accross the middle east have been very peacable whilst Christian nations have been responsible for almost all global attrocities. The Holocaust? Hitler called himself a Catholic. Atom Bomb? Atheists. Crusades? Christians. Spanish inquisition? Christians. In the last century, with the end of imperial rule in large parts of the globe and increased pressure on natural resources, particular communities have become more militant. If you look at communities in Eastern Europe which do not have the same pressures, they are not as militant. Marty and Appleby in their 'fundamentalisms' study explain this better than I could.
What I'm getting at, is that for every paragraph you could quote Kingsway, I could quote another violent one from another religion. So is everyone the enemy? We need to look at other reasons why people turn to violence, rather than blaming the religions themselves.
The idea that religions themselves cause wars and destruction is essentialistic - basically meaning that you think the religion exists separately from the people which create it. I don't subscribe to this view. All religions have doctrines and teachings which promote violence, as well as those which promote peace.
Islam has not promoted violence for 1,300 years. For most of the last millenia (with the notable exception of this century) Muslim people accross the middle east have been very peacable whilst Christian nations have been responsible for almost all global attrocities. The Holocaust? Hitler called himself a Catholic. Atom Bomb? Atheists. Crusades? Christians. Spanish inquisition? Christians. In the last century, with the end of imperial rule in large parts of the globe and increased pressure on natural resources, particular communities have become more militant. If you look at communities in Eastern Europe which do not have the same pressures, they are not as militant. Marty and Appleby in their 'fundamentalisms' study explain this better than I could.
What I'm getting at, is that for every paragraph you could quote Kingsway, I could quote another violent one from another religion. So is everyone the enemy? We need to look at other reasons why people turn to violence, rather than blaming the religions themselves.
Oh my goodness. I have clarified my point, so there's no need to argue back is there? And if you want to argue that Jewish people (or anyone else for that matter) don't get angry when their religion is insulted, go for it, but you'd be wrong. I explained that my use of the term 'exactly the same' was about the emotional response, in this case, anger. I have also said if people want to go ahead and be violent then that's because they are nutters and I'm not sticking up for them.
And the court of law... the point was meant to demonstrate that I didn't feel on a message board every assertion and intended point should or would need to be fully demonstrated and explained like it would in a court of law.
I am comfortable with my grasp of the English language and am happy to clarfiy if people misunderstand the points I am trying to make in the spirit of healthy debate. But if you wish to consistently misunderstand me to start a fight, then I really don't care.
And the court of law... the point was meant to demonstrate that I didn't feel on a message board every assertion and intended point should or would need to be fully demonstrated and explained like it would in a court of law.
I am comfortable with my grasp of the English language and am happy to clarfiy if people misunderstand the points I am trying to make in the spirit of healthy debate. But if you wish to consistently misunderstand me to start a fight, then I really don't care.
admarlow - reading from right to left it is a message from Muhammad to us infidels saying "We have ordained Death among you Nothing can hinder Us from replacing you and transforming you into beings you know nothing of".
neeny - I am not anti Islam or anti anything else for that matter. Many years ago I spent a lot of time living in the world of Islam and here is an old black and white of "Kingsway of Arabia" to prove it (I'd rather over done it on the brown Cherry Blossom boot polish make-up I now think). However, the Koran is very murderous towards non-believers and I do agree with the Pope that Islam has become a pain in the neck at the moment (no, I'm not a Catholic but a hymn happy Methodist).
neeny - I am not anti Islam or anti anything else for that matter. Many years ago I spent a lot of time living in the world of Islam and here is an old black and white of "Kingsway of Arabia" to prove it (I'd rather over done it on the brown Cherry Blossom boot polish make-up I now think). However, the Koran is very murderous towards non-believers and I do agree with the Pope that Islam has become a pain in the neck at the moment (no, I'm not a Catholic but a hymn happy Methodist).
neenu or whatever his name is like the rest of them- a typical muslim who ignores the fact that his fellow muslims incite hatred and call for muslims to murder of all of us- in this society that welcomed them into our country.Do we burn down their mosques in retaliation?? NO! what I'm seeing though is that decent law-abiding peace-loving Britons are getting tired of the whinging of this brigade and it is growing daily.They are gaining an ever-increasing false sense of security after 9/11 and the false perception that they can make us think the way they do.They have a lot to learn.
Keep a foot in both camps, sandy, because when it comes to it we might prefer the ostrich eggs. Muhammad tells us;
"The sinners and the unbelievers and their wives will all be led to the gates of Hell and all will surely taste our punishment. All will be sternly punished. But the true servants of Allah shall be well provided for, feasting on fruit, and honoured in the Gardens of Delight. Reclining face to face on soft couches, they shall be served with a goblet filled at a gushing fountain, white, and delicious to those that drink it. It will neither dull their senses nor befuddle them. They shall sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches".
Don't want to turn that up if theres a chance. There is a foretaste of these sheltered eggs of ostriches
"The sinners and the unbelievers and their wives will all be led to the gates of Hell and all will surely taste our punishment. All will be sternly punished. But the true servants of Allah shall be well provided for, feasting on fruit, and honoured in the Gardens of Delight. Reclining face to face on soft couches, they shall be served with a goblet filled at a gushing fountain, white, and delicious to those that drink it. It will neither dull their senses nor befuddle them. They shall sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches".
Don't want to turn that up if theres a chance. There is a foretaste of these sheltered eggs of ostriches
I'm a bit puzzled by the editing. I had only posted a picture of a decorated ostrich egg .
