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WHY did God create that that is?
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Assuming that you believe in a God that created everything, whether specifically or through evolution, my question is WHY did God create that that is?
Why so many stars?
Why animals and other creatures?
Why man?
Answers
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The rational solution is to abandon that initial assumption, then the question of "why?" doesn't arise.
A good example of this is evolutiion where the question is not "why?" but "how?".
It is reasonable to assume (and we are well on the way to proving it) that extremely primitive life came about accidentally by the coming-together of the right chemicals, after which the automatic process of random mutation followed by natural selection produced modern complex life.
Primitive man needed the idea of gods to explain things. I'd like to think that we had moved on from there.
A good example of this is evolutiion where the question is not "why?" but "how?".
It is reasonable to assume (and we are well on the way to proving it) that extremely primitive life came about accidentally by the coming-together of the right chemicals, after which the automatic process of random mutation followed by natural selection produced modern complex life.
Primitive man needed the idea of gods to explain things. I'd like to think that we had moved on from there.
Gods' purpose through creation is to glorify Himself.
The creation as we observe it is Gods' chosen method to do this.
The creation is marred by sin, and therefore corrupted.
Gods' plan is to reconcile His creation to Himself, so that He may be truly glorified.
God reconciles His creation, through the atoning death on the cross of His Son, Jesus Christ.
The glory of the creation, the infinity of it all, is a mere reflection of the glory of God.
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They are interesting questions, Ethmer. Assuming that there was a God the creator, why indeed have such a variety of animals, plants, stars etcif all that was wanted was reflected glory from worshippers?
Why not give us humans ( allegedly the receptacle of divinity, however imperfect) some balls of rock , a couple of decent animal / plant things to nourish us, and one or two stars to see by so we can pray to him?
Theland - the words you write look nice and sound good... but what do they actually mean ?
Why not give us humans ( allegedly the receptacle of divinity, however imperfect) some balls of rock , a couple of decent animal / plant things to nourish us, and one or two stars to see by so we can pray to him?
Theland - the words you write look nice and sound good... but what do they actually mean ?
'Gods' purpose through creation is to glorify Himself.'
So we're here to make him look good and to tell him how great he is? He's God surely he doesn't need us to do that.
'Gods' plan is to reconcile His creation to Himself, so that He may be truly glorified.'
Very poetic but what does that actually mean? Reconcile his creation to himself? Eh?
'God reconciles His creation, through the atoning death on the cross of His Son, Jesus Christ.'
Er, how does someones death do that then? And if there's life after death then doesn't it make this 'sacrifice' rather meaningless? Wasn't Jesus resurrected? Rather a hollow sacrifice don't you think.
So we're here to make him look good and to tell him how great he is? He's God surely he doesn't need us to do that.
'Gods' plan is to reconcile His creation to Himself, so that He may be truly glorified.'
Very poetic but what does that actually mean? Reconcile his creation to himself? Eh?
'God reconciles His creation, through the atoning death on the cross of His Son, Jesus Christ.'
Er, how does someones death do that then? And if there's life after death then doesn't it make this 'sacrifice' rather meaningless? Wasn't Jesus resurrected? Rather a hollow sacrifice don't you think.
Chakka next time you answer perhaps answer the question. If you can't hypothesise there is a god then you can't be very open minded. It doesn't mean believe in him.
Llamatron, i'm fairly sure "Reconciling his creation to himself" means we eventually go to heaven to be with him.
As for Jesus' sacrifice, I think he spent the three days he was dead in hell.
In general I think it's hard to answer your question ethmer. The fact that we can't possibly comprehend god's thinking is one of the things that seperates us from him. Perhaps he simply came up with the idea of evolution and set the ball rolling.
Llamatron, i'm fairly sure "Reconciling his creation to himself" means we eventually go to heaven to be with him.
As for Jesus' sacrifice, I think he spent the three days he was dead in hell.
In general I think it's hard to answer your question ethmer. The fact that we can't possibly comprehend god's thinking is one of the things that seperates us from him. Perhaps he simply came up with the idea of evolution and set the ball rolling.
You might as easily ask in this case why so few?
Evolutions gives us at least some basis to explain why creatures come about but if there is an almighty who could create at whim why did he produce such a limited set of creatures?
No dragons or unicorns? No mammals with 3 eyes? etc. etc.
And why did all those dinosaurs go extinct? were they discarded like broken toys? Were they mistakes? perhaps they became sinfull?
Of course a more modern sophisticated answer is that God created evolution as a tool to create man, we see all the rest of the animals and earthly nature because they were necessary to create and support man and the almost infinite diversity in creation to inspire mankind.
Of course if Genesis IS just a metaphor you end up asking "well what else might be a metaphor" and if it's not you end up with your arms crossed insisting that 7 days means 7 days whilst people wave dinosaur bones in your face.
So placing your faith in a book is a bit of a lose:lose situation!
Evolutions gives us at least some basis to explain why creatures come about but if there is an almighty who could create at whim why did he produce such a limited set of creatures?
No dragons or unicorns? No mammals with 3 eyes? etc. etc.
And why did all those dinosaurs go extinct? were they discarded like broken toys? Were they mistakes? perhaps they became sinfull?
Of course a more modern sophisticated answer is that God created evolution as a tool to create man, we see all the rest of the animals and earthly nature because they were necessary to create and support man and the almost infinite diversity in creation to inspire mankind.
Of course if Genesis IS just a metaphor you end up asking "well what else might be a metaphor" and if it's not you end up with your arms crossed insisting that 7 days means 7 days whilst people wave dinosaur bones in your face.
So placing your faith in a book is a bit of a lose:lose situation!
The reason I didn't spend time and energy answering the question, mikeyp, is that it is plainly unanswerable. I addressed it, which is much more useful.
If you start from an unwarranted assumption - in this case a supernatural being for whose existence there is not a smidgeon of evidence - then if, as a result of that assumption, you find yourself with imponderables, then it makes sense to go back and abandon the assumption.
If I asked ABers to assume that Santa Claus exists and then require them to explain where he finds flying reindeer and how on earth he gets around all those millions of homes in one night I reckon the general answer would be "Forget the idea of Santa and your questions will evaporate". That's what I was telling Ethmer.
Shame that it has cued a other tedious sermon from Theland. Notice that he/she neither answers the question nor addresses it.
If you start from an unwarranted assumption - in this case a supernatural being for whose existence there is not a smidgeon of evidence - then if, as a result of that assumption, you find yourself with imponderables, then it makes sense to go back and abandon the assumption.
If I asked ABers to assume that Santa Claus exists and then require them to explain where he finds flying reindeer and how on earth he gets around all those millions of homes in one night I reckon the general answer would be "Forget the idea of Santa and your questions will evaporate". That's what I was telling Ethmer.
Shame that it has cued a other tedious sermon from Theland. Notice that he/she neither answers the question nor addresses it.
I did notice that Theland produced a somewhat cryptic message. :)
Surely if you make any assumption that is not 100% proved (including many current scientific theoies) you are going to find unponderables? At least ones that will then be answered at a later date.
Perhaps our interpretation of the word proved differs. Suppose a scientist demonstrated the first steps of evolution in a lab. That would be a fantastic discovery, and would further strengthen an already very strong theory. However, it wouldn't "prove" anything in the strict sense of the word.
Surely if you make any assumption that is not 100% proved (including many current scientific theoies) you are going to find unponderables? At least ones that will then be answered at a later date.
Perhaps our interpretation of the word proved differs. Suppose a scientist demonstrated the first steps of evolution in a lab. That would be a fantastic discovery, and would further strengthen an already very strong theory. However, it wouldn't "prove" anything in the strict sense of the word.
Theland...if gods purpose through creation is to glorify himself...how did he do it for the billions of years BEFORE creation? And why would a perfect being (assuming god IS perfect) NEED to be glorified? unless he's some kind of meglomaniac.A perfect being would have no need to "prove" himself.
mikeyp..according to the bible jesus spent 3 days and 3 nights in the grave...but friday night until sunday morning is neither 3 days or nights.Another bible contradiction
mikeyp..according to the bible jesus spent 3 days and 3 nights in the grave...but friday night until sunday morning is neither 3 days or nights.Another bible contradiction
I didn't use the word "proved", mikeyp, but that is just a quibble, I suppose.
Ethmer's assumption - that God exists - is not just "not 100% proved" but not even 0.000000000...000% proved, and you can add as many zeros as you like. In fact, far from being proved, there is not even a microscopic grain of evidence for it. Which means that your evolution analogy doesn't work.
The first stage of evolution was based on a superb theory backed by a lot of in-the-field evidence. Since when, in only 150 years, it has developed into a full science backed by mountains of evidence from all quarters.
God, on the other hand, has not moved from his original position about 3000 years ago when he was promoted from a minor god of southern Israel to the monotheistic "God".
Anyway, I look forward an answer to Ethmer's question from someone who is prepared to accept his/her original assumption.
Ethmer's assumption - that God exists - is not just "not 100% proved" but not even 0.000000000...000% proved, and you can add as many zeros as you like. In fact, far from being proved, there is not even a microscopic grain of evidence for it. Which means that your evolution analogy doesn't work.
The first stage of evolution was based on a superb theory backed by a lot of in-the-field evidence. Since when, in only 150 years, it has developed into a full science backed by mountains of evidence from all quarters.
God, on the other hand, has not moved from his original position about 3000 years ago when he was promoted from a minor god of southern Israel to the monotheistic "God".
Anyway, I look forward an answer to Ethmer's question from someone who is prepared to accept his/her original assumption.
Is not vanity a sin?.
'Thou shalt worship no other gods before me'?, never said there weren't any others, just that he was top god.
just there, he wants people to glorify him/her/it?.
God created us just to worhip him, you'd never find a bigger ego than that,
As to why he created us, obvious, he was lonely., another failing.
'Thou shalt worship no other gods before me'?, never said there weren't any others, just that he was top god.
just there, he wants people to glorify him/her/it?.
God created us just to worhip him, you'd never find a bigger ego than that,
As to why he created us, obvious, he was lonely., another failing.
I reckon God got went out on a pub crawl one night and got completely wasted.
He woke up the following morning with a killer hangover and the dawning realisation that he had something really stupid the night before trying to impress his mates - he had made the Universe and some pesky little critters called people.
No way are we the product of someone thinking straight.
He woke up the following morning with a killer hangover and the dawning realisation that he had something really stupid the night before trying to impress his mates - he had made the Universe and some pesky little critters called people.
No way are we the product of someone thinking straight.
-- answer removed --
Assuming there was a God, then it'd be like sitting down at a table with an endless supply of plasterceine. You make a dog, then you make a cat, then one of those magic rounabout snail type things, you know? That's why.He got bored doing the same things over and over agian, then went to the pub and came back and made the platypus, Andrew Lloyd Webber and stuck the wrong mouth on Sian Lloyd.
Every time the "God" debate occurs, the unbelievers must presume that all of the "stuff" in the universe, came about from .... nothing .... for no reason ..... on its own.
Our experiences of cause and effect tell us this cannot be true ... surely?
This has got to be the starting point for any debate.
I believe that the existence of all matter / energy is itself evidence for the existence of God.
Our experiences of cause and effect tell us this cannot be true ... surely?
This has got to be the starting point for any debate.
I believe that the existence of all matter / energy is itself evidence for the existence of God.
Theland !!
You are full of rubbish arent you. I have seen your comments in several threads and just laugh !! You are trying to say that just because we cannot fully explain how we started then that must be evidence that a 'GOD' exists. So basically you are saying that if a logical scientific conclusion cannot be made of something then we might aswell settle for a story with no firm evidence. Your theory can technically start off a number of situations. Why is it that people think just because you cannot disprove the existence of god, then that means it holds equal weight that it must be true. Can you prove pink unicorns dont exist, can you prove that there isnt a flying teapot going around the sun ?? No you cant. In fact can you prove that any supernatural story is wrong.....no you cannot. Does that mean be should believe in 2 headed monsters just because we cant actually prove they dont exist. No one person can scale the whole planet to find out, but we all know that it is probably rubbish because we know that it isnt logical, and there is no scientific fact. After all even god lovers have to agree (with no choice) that we live within logical and scientific rules, otherwise you wouldnt even be reading this on a computer.
Its very basic and easy to just assume that a 'person' created everything isnt it. Or let me guess, GOD is more than a person !!!! Or let me guess, GOD is beyond all science and logic. How convenient !!!!!
That wasnt all aimed at Theland. Just general comments.
You are full of rubbish arent you. I have seen your comments in several threads and just laugh !! You are trying to say that just because we cannot fully explain how we started then that must be evidence that a 'GOD' exists. So basically you are saying that if a logical scientific conclusion cannot be made of something then we might aswell settle for a story with no firm evidence. Your theory can technically start off a number of situations. Why is it that people think just because you cannot disprove the existence of god, then that means it holds equal weight that it must be true. Can you prove pink unicorns dont exist, can you prove that there isnt a flying teapot going around the sun ?? No you cant. In fact can you prove that any supernatural story is wrong.....no you cannot. Does that mean be should believe in 2 headed monsters just because we cant actually prove they dont exist. No one person can scale the whole planet to find out, but we all know that it is probably rubbish because we know that it isnt logical, and there is no scientific fact. After all even god lovers have to agree (with no choice) that we live within logical and scientific rules, otherwise you wouldnt even be reading this on a computer.
Its very basic and easy to just assume that a 'person' created everything isnt it. Or let me guess, GOD is more than a person !!!! Or let me guess, GOD is beyond all science and logic. How convenient !!!!!
That wasnt all aimed at Theland. Just general comments.
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