Crosswords1 min ago
Is this taking things a little too far?
59 Answers
http://
/// Independent on Sunday readers voted for the influential lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people who work publicly or with no recognition to make Britain a safer, fairer, better and more entertaining place. ///
One has to ask why does the Independent on Sunday find the need to have a 'Pink List' of gay 'heroes' and 'heroines', surely it is all so patronising?
This is last year's list.
http://
/// Independent on Sunday readers voted for the influential lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people who work publicly or with no recognition to make Britain a safer, fairer, better and more entertaining place. ///
One has to ask why does the Independent on Sunday find the need to have a 'Pink List' of gay 'heroes' and 'heroines', surely it is all so patronising?
This is last year's list.
http://
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joeluke
But don't you think a bit of positivity is a good thing, when there is still a degree of hatred towards gays?
Do you think that those gay men and women who might feel isolated may look at this list and think, "Hey - you know what, being me isn't such a bad thing, no matter what some might say"?
Could it be that the list itself isn't pointless, but more that it you have no interest in it, and this thread (which begs the question, why do you keep coming back to it?)
But don't you think a bit of positivity is a good thing, when there is still a degree of hatred towards gays?
Do you think that those gay men and women who might feel isolated may look at this list and think, "Hey - you know what, being me isn't such a bad thing, no matter what some might say"?
Could it be that the list itself isn't pointless, but more that it you have no interest in it, and this thread (which begs the question, why do you keep coming back to it?)
Of course a straight woman can have a girlfriend - but I would call them "my friend" not specify the sex, I have friends of both sexes. The people on the list are hardly "celebrities" in the rubbish B-list term of the word - they are influential people, experts in their career fields, who just happen to be gay.
I don't personally see the need for this list but then I'm not bothered whether these people are gay or black or disabled or .. anything - all I need to know about people is that they are good at what they do, and respected by their peers. What I - and tbh the rest of us - think of them is irrelevant to me.
I don't personally see the need for this list but then I'm not bothered whether these people are gay or black or disabled or .. anything - all I need to know about people is that they are good at what they do, and respected by their peers. What I - and tbh the rest of us - think of them is irrelevant to me.
AOG
No - a straight woman cannot have a partner whose a girlfriend. She can have a girlfriend but if she referred to her partner as 'girlfriend' then she would be gay.
I assumed everyone knew this.
You stated:
Many have said that this list does good for all those who have been frightened to come out, so it gives them the confidence they need. <br/> <br/> I disagree this list like most others in these days of celebrity adulation, only glorifies so called celebrities, in this case 'Gay' Celebrities.
I really don't know how else to put this, and please don't take this personally, or think that I'm being aggressive - but you don't know what you're talking about here.
Firstly, if you read this year's list, you'd see that it's not simply a list of celebs.
Secondly, you cannot possibly know what does and does not give gay people the impetus to come out.
Unless you have a large number of gay friends and have spoken to them about this, then how on earth could you possibly know?
Again, in print, what I've written looks aggressive - but I'm simply reacting to your posit that these kinds of positive stories do nothing for gay people.
You're not right in that assertion.
I am speaking from over forty years of personal experience.
No - a straight woman cannot have a partner whose a girlfriend. She can have a girlfriend but if she referred to her partner as 'girlfriend' then she would be gay.
I assumed everyone knew this.
You stated:
Many have said that this list does good for all those who have been frightened to come out, so it gives them the confidence they need. <br/> <br/> I disagree this list like most others in these days of celebrity adulation, only glorifies so called celebrities, in this case 'Gay' Celebrities.
I really don't know how else to put this, and please don't take this personally, or think that I'm being aggressive - but you don't know what you're talking about here.
Firstly, if you read this year's list, you'd see that it's not simply a list of celebs.
Secondly, you cannot possibly know what does and does not give gay people the impetus to come out.
Unless you have a large number of gay friends and have spoken to them about this, then how on earth could you possibly know?
Again, in print, what I've written looks aggressive - but I'm simply reacting to your posit that these kinds of positive stories do nothing for gay people.
You're not right in that assertion.
I am speaking from over forty years of personal experience.
AOG
And what issues do you have with the Gay Pride march?
How is it 'shoved in your face'? Do you live on the route?
Do you have similar objections to all marches and parades? Apart from Gay Pride, which others do you object to?
Or are your issues only limited to certain sections of society?
Furthermore, do you understand what the Gay Oride march is all about?
Have you ever attended? They're great fun.
And what issues do you have with the Gay Pride march?
How is it 'shoved in your face'? Do you live on the route?
Do you have similar objections to all marches and parades? Apart from Gay Pride, which others do you object to?
Or are your issues only limited to certain sections of society?
Furthermore, do you understand what the Gay Oride march is all about?
Have you ever attended? They're great fun.
AOG
But I don't have an issue with he Last Night Of The Proms and have never complained about music fans 'ramming their classical agenda down our throats'.
Big difference.
So once again, how do you surmise that this list isn't a positive thing for gay people? How have you formed this opinion, which you have proffered as a fact?
But I don't have an issue with he Last Night Of The Proms and have never complained about music fans 'ramming their classical agenda down our throats'.
Big difference.
So once again, how do you surmise that this list isn't a positive thing for gay people? How have you formed this opinion, which you have proffered as a fact?
Does anyone here think that there will come a day when 'gay pride' ' 'proud to be gay', the gay flag,and the irrelevant allusion to someone's homosexuality in the press, will all be a thing of the past ? If so, how far off is it?
This Pink List is evidence that that day hasn't arrived yet. It should not be in a national newspaper, not because it is 'in your face' or 'shouting from the rooftops', but because gays still need the confidence and encouragement for themselves that it gives.
This Pink List is evidence that that day hasn't arrived yet. It should not be in a national newspaper, not because it is 'in your face' or 'shouting from the rooftops', but because gays still need the confidence and encouragement for themselves that it gives.
FredPuli43
There's a phrase that a mate of mine coined a while ago - 'acceptance acceleration'. He was talking about the speed at which acceptance of gay work colleagues, family member etc has sped up in the past few years.
I'd not thought about it in any great depth, but it's true - if you look back over the past 20 years or so, we've gone from a nation where a boy band member being gay was front page news (Stephen Gately) to a place where it's so much less of a big deal.
There are those for whom it will always be an issue (some older people, right wing organisations, religious fundamentalists), but your average man/woman on the street have moved on and realise that it's not 1935 any more.
How long will it take? Not sure - a few decades possibly.
There's a phrase that a mate of mine coined a while ago - 'acceptance acceleration'. He was talking about the speed at which acceptance of gay work colleagues, family member etc has sped up in the past few years.
I'd not thought about it in any great depth, but it's true - if you look back over the past 20 years or so, we've gone from a nation where a boy band member being gay was front page news (Stephen Gately) to a place where it's so much less of a big deal.
There are those for whom it will always be an issue (some older people, right wing organisations, religious fundamentalists), but your average man/woman on the street have moved on and realise that it's not 1935 any more.
How long will it take? Not sure - a few decades possibly.
Sp. I have no particular opinion on this subject, which you are obviously passionate about.
On reflection, mine was a rather crass 'off the cuff' remark & I can well see how annoying it was to you.
So, I'll say sorry to you & do my best to be more reflective before posting. No promises,mind you, I'm a bit of a thicko.
On reflection, mine was a rather crass 'off the cuff' remark & I can well see how annoying it was to you.
So, I'll say sorry to you & do my best to be more reflective before posting. No promises,mind you, I'm a bit of a thicko.
sp1814
/// There are those for whom it will always be an issue (some older people, right wing organisations, religious fundamentalists), but your average man/woman on the street have moved on and realise that it's not 1935 any more. ///
I myself have nothing against homosexuality and I am intelligent enough to realise that one has no control over whether one is born heterosexual or homosexual.
But what I do have an issue with is the fact that some (not all) find the need to (and I will use that phrase again) 'Shout it from the rooftops'
Am I not allowed my own opinions on this, without some thinking that anyone who happens to possess different options on this subject than they do, is either 'Old', belongs to a 'Right Wing' Organisation, or is a Religious Fundamentalist?
That in 'MY OPINION' is a rather bigoted view to take.
/// There are those for whom it will always be an issue (some older people, right wing organisations, religious fundamentalists), but your average man/woman on the street have moved on and realise that it's not 1935 any more. ///
I myself have nothing against homosexuality and I am intelligent enough to realise that one has no control over whether one is born heterosexual or homosexual.
But what I do have an issue with is the fact that some (not all) find the need to (and I will use that phrase again) 'Shout it from the rooftops'
Am I not allowed my own opinions on this, without some thinking that anyone who happens to possess different options on this subject than they do, is either 'Old', belongs to a 'Right Wing' Organisation, or is a Religious Fundamentalist?
That in 'MY OPINION' is a rather bigoted view to take.
AOG
You are wrong.
Heterosexual people shout their heterosexuality 'from the rooftops' all the time. Why don't you complain about that?
Group of lads in a pub comparing the relative merits of Cameron Diaz to Ielly Brooke. Would you tell them to stop declaring their heterosexuality?
Group of girls slobbering over pictures of Tom Daley in the latest issue of Heat magazine. Would you tell them to keep their heterosexuality to themselves?
No.
It's only gays who have to be quiet.
Why the double standards?
Finally, please re-read my post. Am I wrong to say that some older people find homosexuality 'challenging'?
I'm right on this, because older people lived through an age where being gay was a crime.
Am I wrong to say that some religious organisations and right wing political parties find homosexuality abhorrent?
Why do you think this applies to you? I if say 'some', doesn't that indicate that I do not mean all?
Please explain how I could be wrong in my asserting that some older people, right wing organisations an political parties have issues with gay people.
We both know this to be true - surely???
You are wrong.
Heterosexual people shout their heterosexuality 'from the rooftops' all the time. Why don't you complain about that?
Group of lads in a pub comparing the relative merits of Cameron Diaz to Ielly Brooke. Would you tell them to stop declaring their heterosexuality?
Group of girls slobbering over pictures of Tom Daley in the latest issue of Heat magazine. Would you tell them to keep their heterosexuality to themselves?
No.
It's only gays who have to be quiet.
Why the double standards?
Finally, please re-read my post. Am I wrong to say that some older people find homosexuality 'challenging'?
I'm right on this, because older people lived through an age where being gay was a crime.
Am I wrong to say that some religious organisations and right wing political parties find homosexuality abhorrent?
Why do you think this applies to you? I if say 'some', doesn't that indicate that I do not mean all?
Please explain how I could be wrong in my asserting that some older people, right wing organisations an political parties have issues with gay people.
We both know this to be true - surely???
By the way - why do you have issues with gays 'shouting it from the rooftops'?
Would you be similarly critical of the BNP shouting about their pride in being British from the rooftops?
You see the similarity there - gay people don't choose to be gay, but when they assert their pride you have an issue.
BNP members don't choose to be British, but you seem okay with them asserting their pride in their Britishness.
Why the double-standards?
Is this the level playing field you want so much? Because to me, the playing field slopes very badly...to the right...
Would you be similarly critical of the BNP shouting about their pride in being British from the rooftops?
You see the similarity there - gay people don't choose to be gay, but when they assert their pride you have an issue.
BNP members don't choose to be British, but you seem okay with them asserting their pride in their Britishness.
Why the double-standards?
Is this the level playing field you want so much? Because to me, the playing field slopes very badly...to the right...
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