ChatterBank0 min ago
Victory for common sense.
31 Answers
I am extremely pleased to see that Denbigh High School has won the case against a muslim girl who wanted to wear muslim dress to school. Schools have dress codes and all pupils must adhere to them.
My 12 year old daughter was recently reprimanded at school for wearing a coat with fur on the collar which apparantly is against the dress rules. Yes its silly and petty but if that's what the rules are then she must stick to them. So what gives someone else the right to think that she can wear clothes which contravene her school's dress code.
The difference here though is that my daughter is unable to complain of racial or religious discrimination because unfortunately in Britain today she is a white, British and nominally Christian.
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It is simplistic and potentially dangerous to reduce this debate to being merely a "victory" for "common sense" as if there is only one obvious outcome which should be followed. This case has already gone to the Appeal Court and then the High Court, each of which overturned the decision of the lower court. Therefore there are complex and finely-balanced arguments on both sides.
I am extremely pleased to see that Denbigh High School has won the case against a muslim girl who wanted to wear muslim dress to school. Schools have dress codes and all pupils must adhere to them.
"Must"? It is the thin end of the wedge towards a dictatorship when it is proclaimed that the citizens "must" obey any and every rule or law merely because it is a law, regardless of the morality or sense of that law.
My 12 year old daughter was recently reprimanded at school for wearing a coat with fur on the collar which apparantly is against the dress rules. Yes its silly and petty but if that's what the rules are then she must stick to them.
That's a contradiction.
So what gives someone else the right to think that she can wear clothes which contravene her school's dress code.
Her deeply-held religious beliefs about how she presents herself in society.
The difference here though is that my daughter is unable to complain of racial or religious discrimination because unfortunately in Britain today she is a white, British and nominally Christian.
That's not the reason - the reason why she can't complain of religious discrimination is because the wearing of a fur-collar coat has nothing to do with any racila or religious practices or customs. If having a fur collar were a tenet of the Christian faith then of course she could complain on those grounds.
<DIV>Maybe some of the tabloid readers on here will use this (and the recent Human Rights Court case about the leeds Gypsies), as a moment to reflect on the difference between 'one case going through the courts' and 'they've been given leave to take the case to a higher court because of issues of law may need to be clarified'.
<DIV>
<DIV>Of course this doesn't make for a sexy headline or a snappy Tory election advert.
There's a thoroughly nasty undercurrent to nearly every post I see here when it comes to race and religion - the kind of blanket intolerance which many posters accuse Muslims of.
Just remember that the Jews went through this in the 40's/50's, then the Caribbeans in the 50's/60's, then the travellers in the 90's. Just another minority to blame all our woes on.
The 80's? I suppose people were too busy buying shares and having their hair blow dried to slap any minorites about.
Not really bernado - the arguments are very simple. Children are not citizens they are legal minors - if the parent wishes to send their child to a school where a school uniform is not specified that is their perogative. You can't effectively sign a contract and then whine about it when it was perfectly clear what it entailed.
I don't believe there is any contradiction in obeying petty and silly rules because they are rules. Merely because they are petty does not give you the right to disregard them, unfortunate as it may be.
Again, please inform me why holding a religious belief holds special preference over any other form of belief. If one of my children was an anarchist who felt he was duty bound to ignore all school rules would you support this? If a child developed the belief that school was only bearable by dressing like an alien, and this belief was 'deeply held' then that is ok I guess. I would have thought in the tolerant society everyone seems to keen to promote ALL personal beliefs of a deeply held nature would be respected, not just those which refer to a mystical supernatural being, or where people are from.
School is not just about education, it is about teaching children how to live in society, where there are petty rules, breaking them gets you more than detention, you realise you are not the most important thing in the world, and that sometimes you have to compromise. In terms of preparing children for real life, lessons like this must be made apparent, even to misguided spoilt little girls who love the attention.
I don't believe there is any contradiction in obeying petty and silly rules because they are rules. Merely because they are petty does not give you the right to disregard them, unfortunate as it may be.
Again, please inform me why holding a religious belief holds special preference over any other form of belief. If one of my children was an anarchist who felt he was duty bound to ignore all school rules would you support this? If a child developed the belief that school was only bearable by dressing like an alien, and this belief was 'deeply held' then that is ok I guess. I would have thought in the tolerant society everyone seems to keen to promote ALL personal beliefs of a deeply held nature would be respected, not just those which refer to a mystical supernatural being, or where people are from.
School is not just about education, it is about teaching children how to live in society, where there are petty rules, breaking them gets you more than detention, you realise you are not the most important thing in the world, and that sometimes you have to compromise. In terms of preparing children for real life, lessons like this must be made apparent, even to misguided spoilt little girls who love the attention.
if you were to walk into a mosque in any country, you'd have to remove your shoes first, regardless of what race or religion you were. When you visit a catholic church in italy/portugal you have to dress in a certain way again regardless of race/religion. If you visit Saudi Arabia, women from the west wouldnt be allowed to walk around the town wearing skimpy summer wear like they do over here. We abide by those rules, they are enforced on us - school is school, you're there to learn, leave your religious beleifs at the door and just wear the uniform like everyone else.
I'm not missing the point at all, as my other posts will show, and yes I'm trying to add my own political agenda, any chance to make a point :o)
It's not really a plight is it. She was just told off for breaking the school rules.
I agree with El D. And Booldawg, I see your point, but I would add that I've been to the middle east and the far east in temples and in the street and many westerners do not adhere to dress codes and it is not forced on them. Myself and people I've travelled with have always adhered to them simply out of respect for other cultures and religions.
sp - I don't agree that there is a nasty undercurrent in the thread. Why is stating that Jilbaab should not be worn in schools a blanket attack against the Muslim faith?
