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Let Us Pray.
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If you believe in God, do you not think s/he is a bit of a bighead expecting everyone to pray to him, some five times per day, when the omnipotent One knows what you are thinking at all times anyway?
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Yes, I set myself up for that...
The point I'm trying to make is not necessarily that all of this is right. As I have tried to make clear a few times, I don't think that. But I think some people are too quick to condemn, picking up on small points that are not difficult to see, and not always giving thought to why it is that despite all these "obvious" flaws people still believe in this?
There are two reasons, I think: the first is that some people are just closing their eyes to the flaws, or not bothering to look into it. The second is that, if you are careful, it's possible to make even the most respectable and correct position look foolish, by grabbing at small points and making them bigger than they are. Take the talking snake story in Genesis. Is that really meant to be a true story, or is it perhaps a representation of something deeper? The "snake" could personify evil rather than be literal.
Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism... most of the world religions have been around for centuries and some have been the subject of intense scrutiny during that time. Isn't it a little bit arrogant to think that after the merest surface reading you can see through what millions of people before you cannot? And then, after that small amount of time, to blast it all as "ridiculous nonsense"? Why have so many people "fallen for it"? Not all of them are jumping on the bandwagon with no thought. It's worth, I think, understanding why this is so popular. Why, despite all this scrutiny, people can still believe this. It may be, indeed I think it is, that there is more to it than the parodies of religion I see some ABers post.
It's as bad to be dogmatic about being religious, as it is to be dogmatic about atheism. Even though I believe it to be wrong, I hope never to stop thinking about it.
The point I'm trying to make is not necessarily that all of this is right. As I have tried to make clear a few times, I don't think that. But I think some people are too quick to condemn, picking up on small points that are not difficult to see, and not always giving thought to why it is that despite all these "obvious" flaws people still believe in this?
There are two reasons, I think: the first is that some people are just closing their eyes to the flaws, or not bothering to look into it. The second is that, if you are careful, it's possible to make even the most respectable and correct position look foolish, by grabbing at small points and making them bigger than they are. Take the talking snake story in Genesis. Is that really meant to be a true story, or is it perhaps a representation of something deeper? The "snake" could personify evil rather than be literal.
Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism... most of the world religions have been around for centuries and some have been the subject of intense scrutiny during that time. Isn't it a little bit arrogant to think that after the merest surface reading you can see through what millions of people before you cannot? And then, after that small amount of time, to blast it all as "ridiculous nonsense"? Why have so many people "fallen for it"? Not all of them are jumping on the bandwagon with no thought. It's worth, I think, understanding why this is so popular. Why, despite all this scrutiny, people can still believe this. It may be, indeed I think it is, that there is more to it than the parodies of religion I see some ABers post.
It's as bad to be dogmatic about being religious, as it is to be dogmatic about atheism. Even though I believe it to be wrong, I hope never to stop thinking about it.
Jim What is the prime purpose of the bible ? I would say to inform .
If that is the case it should as simple and literal as possible.
So // The "snake" could personify evil rather than be literal. //.
Why would anyone want or need to wrap it up in a way that ,then and now , no one knows what it means ? It was written for simple folk so it required simple clear speech and should be taken literally.
If that is the case it should as simple and literal as possible.
So // The "snake" could personify evil rather than be literal. //.
Why would anyone want or need to wrap it up in a way that ,then and now , no one knows what it means ? It was written for simple folk so it required simple clear speech and should be taken literally.
Well the moral guides are fairly clear and unambiguous - though this of course raises the question why so many people seem to overlook a fair bit of it these days. "But you've got to take it in context!" ...
I'm arguing not about the material itself - sheesh, how many times do I have to say that I disagree with it?! - but that maybe people on here ought to give more thought to it even so. Some of the criticisms have been trotted out loads of times and are very simplistic. I think it's more complicated than some people make out.
I'm arguing not about the material itself - sheesh, how many times do I have to say that I disagree with it?! - but that maybe people on here ought to give more thought to it even so. Some of the criticisms have been trotted out loads of times and are very simplistic. I think it's more complicated than some people make out.
//goodlife
Have you ever thought If prayer is to be answered it must be directed to the right One.
08:54 Tue 16th Apr 2013//
I tried that as a little boy with 100% conviction, and my sincere unselfish request for an extension to the length of time left for a really good person was answered with a reduction of that person's time left instead. That was when for me the 'God is good' theory went out of the window. When growing up I realised what a gullible child I was to have believed in this religious nonsense.
Have you ever thought If prayer is to be answered it must be directed to the right One.
08:54 Tue 16th Apr 2013//
I tried that as a little boy with 100% conviction, and my sincere unselfish request for an extension to the length of time left for a really good person was answered with a reduction of that person's time left instead. That was when for me the 'God is good' theory went out of the window. When growing up I realised what a gullible child I was to have believed in this religious nonsense.
I'm sorry to hear that wildone, although it was a long time ago so I suppose it's not too hard to deal with any more. I think in the end it was a similar personal tragedy that led me to reject the idea of "God is good" -- and therefore the idea of a God entirely, by a bit of a weird leap. Personal experience, rather than any apparent "plot holes", so to speak.
Morning Jim, why do you assume that all atheists merely skin the surface? They don’t – in fact, unlike many Christians, we’ve read the book so we know Jesus wasn’t born in a stable.
//Why have so many people "fallen for it [religion]"?// Because they think they can cheat death – and to answer another of your questions, that’s why they ignore all the obvious flaws. They WANT to believe they can cheat death. If that prospect wasn’t dangled before them, God would be redundant.
In my opinion, the New Testament is the tangled story of a Jewish wannabee ‘freedom fighter’ which has been hijacked and re-written to suit a purpose; the Koran is a short work constructed initially by an ambitious, war-mongering plagiarist, and therefore doesn’t warrant serious consideration - and the Old Testament contains very rational clues to our past which we continue to ignore in favour of ‘the supernatural’ – but if I go into that, you’ll say I’m silly. ;o)
//Why have so many people "fallen for it [religion]"?// Because they think they can cheat death – and to answer another of your questions, that’s why they ignore all the obvious flaws. They WANT to believe they can cheat death. If that prospect wasn’t dangled before them, God would be redundant.
In my opinion, the New Testament is the tangled story of a Jewish wannabee ‘freedom fighter’ which has been hijacked and re-written to suit a purpose; the Koran is a short work constructed initially by an ambitious, war-mongering plagiarist, and therefore doesn’t warrant serious consideration - and the Old Testament contains very rational clues to our past which we continue to ignore in favour of ‘the supernatural’ – but if I go into that, you’ll say I’m silly. ;o)
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