ChatterBank1 min ago
Horse-Racing- Cruel?
129 Answers
To avoid disrupting Ken's thread, and to allow people to have their say...
My view is no. Because I believe mental health is just as important for animals as it is for people... and I have worked in Racing yards, Polo yards, Riding schools etc...
When you have bred an animal throughout hundreds of years to want to race, is it actually "kind" to wrap them in cotton wool instead forever? I now work with older people, and feel the same. Anything "fun" comes with some risk.
Obviously,there is no justification for cruelty or abuse, no matter what- and I doubt anyone would suggest there is.
So- horseracing? Fair or not?
My view is no. Because I believe mental health is just as important for animals as it is for people... and I have worked in Racing yards, Polo yards, Riding schools etc...
When you have bred an animal throughout hundreds of years to want to race, is it actually "kind" to wrap them in cotton wool instead forever? I now work with older people, and feel the same. Anything "fun" comes with some risk.
Obviously,there is no justification for cruelty or abuse, no matter what- and I doubt anyone would suggest there is.
So- horseracing? Fair or not?
Answers
Whips will never be banned totally because in the majority of cases they are a safety aid used to keep the horse moving straight - if you watch you will see a jockey pull a whip through to his other hand if a horse is veering towards another horse or the rail. Use of the whip to encourage them to go faster is very limited and most of the time is waved in the air. This...
14:26 Fri 09th Apr 2021
The Racing Industry is cruel. Horses are bred to be faster, not to enjoy racing better. Every horse is different -some are stubborn and just will not do as they are told, regardless of whether that is racing or dressage -others are easily trained to do what is expected of them. This is neither hate nor love of anything, it's the horse's personality.
Gotta go now but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this on. :-)
Gotta go now but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this on. :-)
APG - // Pixie you are mixing up 'Enjoyment' with 'Excitement'. My horses go nuts in the field, tails up bucking, if they see another horse go by or something unfamiliar goes down the lane (like a line of ramblers). This does not mean they are enjoying the situation, it means they are excited, ready for flight -a natural instinct. //
Once again you are appointing yourself as spokeswoman for an entire species which does not communicate its emotions in a way that we seriously understand.
Your admonish people for anthropomoprhisising, quite correctly in my view - in which case you should not do so a couple of posts later when it suits your argument.
You don't know what or how your horses feel, or why, so you cannot realisitically argue that you do.
You can make a judgement based on experience - but so can everyone else, it doesn't make your judgement the template for horses everywhere.
Once again you are appointing yourself as spokeswoman for an entire species which does not communicate its emotions in a way that we seriously understand.
Your admonish people for anthropomoprhisising, quite correctly in my view - in which case you should not do so a couple of posts later when it suits your argument.
You don't know what or how your horses feel, or why, so you cannot realisitically argue that you do.
You can make a judgement based on experience - but so can everyone else, it doesn't make your judgement the template for horses everywhere.
Not fair..horses like to run.... they can choose to run ..or not.. they are made to race.. and If they dont want to run in that race.. they get kicked on & the whip used on them..and sold to to who knows what if they dont come up to expectation, Dont think they'd choose that if they could speak! Mrs C
crisper - // Not fair..horses like to run.... they can choose to run ..or not.. they are made to race.. and If they dont want to run in that race.. they get kicked on & the whip used on them ... //
Do you seriously think you can make a horse race by whipping it?
You can make it run a little faster - and as I am sure you know, use of the whip is very tightly controlled in modern horse racing, but you could whip a horse until your arm dropped off, and if it didn't want to race, it wouldn't.
Do you seriously think you can make a horse race by whipping it?
You can make it run a little faster - and as I am sure you know, use of the whip is very tightly controlled in modern horse racing, but you could whip a horse until your arm dropped off, and if it didn't want to race, it wouldn't.
I suspect so, apg :-). I'm genuinely sorry you have seen abuse where you are. But, I also wouldn't suggest that is needed or acceptable.
Crisper, they are not "made to". Seriously, try kicking a horse to do something it doesn't want to. Do you actually ride? "If they could speak"- what do you think they would want?
Crisper, they are not "made to". Seriously, try kicking a horse to do something it doesn't want to. Do you actually ride? "If they could speak"- what do you think they would want?
My riding experience is not vast, but on more than one occasion, when a rider has not been to the horse's liking, the rider has not remained on the horse for very long.
The notion that a human can sit on a horse and make it run when it chooses not to is simply farcical.
I have seen horses stand with their feet planted and refuse to move an inch when they feel like it despite any intreaties, verbal or physical, and similarly I have seen horses gallop like a racing car, despite attempts by the rider to stop them, and I have seen horses throw their riders off in a second when they feel like it.
Horses do what they want when they want, that is a simple fact based on temprement and size - humans have no control to the extent of making a horse run against its will.
The notion that a human can sit on a horse and make it run when it chooses not to is simply farcical.
I have seen horses stand with their feet planted and refuse to move an inch when they feel like it despite any intreaties, verbal or physical, and similarly I have seen horses gallop like a racing car, despite attempts by the rider to stop them, and I have seen horses throw their riders off in a second when they feel like it.
Horses do what they want when they want, that is a simple fact based on temprement and size - humans have no control to the extent of making a horse run against its will.
Crisper, average weight of a racehorse is 70 stone. Average weight of a jockey is anywhere between 7.5 and 8.5 stone on the level. Are you suggesting that a tap of the whip - a featherweight appliance - will make a horse do anything against it's will.
What does make horses race is conditioning. The clue is in the name, Racehorse, def; a horse specifically bred and trained to race.
Back in the eons of time, when the industry was a lot seedier, i have no doubt that there was a good deal of cruelty. However, steps have been taken to eradicate as much of that as is possible with alterations to the fences, hurdles, courses and the whip. Even the GN is not the lottery it once was. Recent times have seen the onset of 'hands and heels' only races. Perhaps in time (maybe not in our lifetime?), the whip will be done away with completely.
Though i do doubt that the breaking in of horses before they are ready (as per APG's informative post) will ever be changed as many of the big money prizes are geared toward 2 and 3 year old runners.
What does make horses race is conditioning. The clue is in the name, Racehorse, def; a horse specifically bred and trained to race.
Back in the eons of time, when the industry was a lot seedier, i have no doubt that there was a good deal of cruelty. However, steps have been taken to eradicate as much of that as is possible with alterations to the fences, hurdles, courses and the whip. Even the GN is not the lottery it once was. Recent times have seen the onset of 'hands and heels' only races. Perhaps in time (maybe not in our lifetime?), the whip will be done away with completely.
Though i do doubt that the breaking in of horses before they are ready (as per APG's informative post) will ever be changed as many of the big money prizes are geared toward 2 and 3 year old runners.
Andy, one of our racehorses did exactly that. Twice. She was taken to races and just planted herself in the stalls. Would not move and didn't want to. As I said, one of my friends bought her.
I honestly find it a little strange to suggest that as some people are cruel... that racehorses shouldn't be allowed to run.
I am an animal lover- but whether it is animals or humans, I would genuinely prefer them to have a proper full life, even at the risk of dying earlier. Than wrap in cotton wool and send them mad until they are 100.
I honestly find it a little strange to suggest that as some people are cruel... that racehorses shouldn't be allowed to run.
I am an animal lover- but whether it is animals or humans, I would genuinely prefer them to have a proper full life, even at the risk of dying earlier. Than wrap in cotton wool and send them mad until they are 100.
From my experience, which again I concede is limited, horses are exactly like children, they are as naughty as they are allowed to be.
That's why they will act up when an inexpereinced or frightened rider gets on board, they play up because they can.
I was on a day out with a mix of experienced and amateur riders once - my horse decided to try it on. As we walked past the open gate to a massive field, he stopped and had a good long look at it, and I am sure he would have bolted had I not pulled him round and gently kicked him to get him walking. From then on we were fine, we both knew who was in charge.
Not so the most timid rider, who was frequently almost pulled over her horse's head as he bent to eat grass every few minutes. He finally decided he was fed up with his frightened rider, and he rolled, almost crushing her leg as he did so, she was lucky enough to scramble clear. The stable owner yelled at him and punched him on the shoulder, which he competely ignored. She admited that he was simply playing up, and needed controlling. I swapped onto him and the timid (and traumatised!) rider was led by the owner as we headed back. The naughty horse was perfectly behaved for me - I believe they sense when a rider is not in control and play up, like children.
That's why they will act up when an inexpereinced or frightened rider gets on board, they play up because they can.
I was on a day out with a mix of experienced and amateur riders once - my horse decided to try it on. As we walked past the open gate to a massive field, he stopped and had a good long look at it, and I am sure he would have bolted had I not pulled him round and gently kicked him to get him walking. From then on we were fine, we both knew who was in charge.
Not so the most timid rider, who was frequently almost pulled over her horse's head as he bent to eat grass every few minutes. He finally decided he was fed up with his frightened rider, and he rolled, almost crushing her leg as he did so, she was lucky enough to scramble clear. The stable owner yelled at him and punched him on the shoulder, which he competely ignored. She admited that he was simply playing up, and needed controlling. I swapped onto him and the timid (and traumatised!) rider was led by the owner as we headed back. The naughty horse was perfectly behaved for me - I believe they sense when a rider is not in control and play up, like children.
A point has been missed here...or rather skated over. Is it kind to breed horses so that that breeding makes them race? Because if it is, then lets breed dogs so that their breeding makes them fight? Because the Japanese do it.
Racehorses don't have a choice because (as DEFENDERS have said) they are bred to do it.
Its no defence to say there is risk in everything and therefore its fine. Horses don't choose to take the risk or not.
I haven't ridden for a while and was never good at it, but even I know there are ways to get horses to do what they don't want to....some quite cruel.
Horses who don't make the grade end up eaten or sent to other places where their lives will be enforced drudgery and poor care...some lucky few get rescued and retrained but by no means all.
Yes there are many owners and trainers who treat their horses as kindly as possible but racing (the bloodstock INDUSTRY ha there's a clue) intrinsically is not kind or fair to horses.
Racehorses don't have a choice because (as DEFENDERS have said) they are bred to do it.
Its no defence to say there is risk in everything and therefore its fine. Horses don't choose to take the risk or not.
I haven't ridden for a while and was never good at it, but even I know there are ways to get horses to do what they don't want to....some quite cruel.
Horses who don't make the grade end up eaten or sent to other places where their lives will be enforced drudgery and poor care...some lucky few get rescued and retrained but by no means all.
Yes there are many owners and trainers who treat their horses as kindly as possible but racing (the bloodstock INDUSTRY ha there's a clue) intrinsically is not kind or fair to horses.
Dependable, woof. If you look at it that way- we should ban all breeding of horses, dogs and every other animal. Really, all domestic animals only exist because of humans and their benefit.
Clearly, racing is nothing to do with fighting. The latter is designed to cause harm, which racing is anything but.
I don't know what experience you personally have, woof? But racehorses are treated like babies. They literally wear duvets at night. No horse is going to do its best if it is unhappy, or unfit.
Clearly, racing is nothing to do with fighting. The latter is designed to cause harm, which racing is anything but.
I don't know what experience you personally have, woof? But racehorses are treated like babies. They literally wear duvets at night. No horse is going to do its best if it is unhappy, or unfit.
Whips will never be banned totally because in the majority of cases they are a safety aid used to keep the horse moving straight - if you watch you will see a jockey pull a whip through to his other hand if a horse is veering towards another horse or the rail. Use of the whip to encourage them to go faster is very limited and most of the time is waved in the air. This subject will always attract for and against but having worked in racing yards I believe most trainers and staff have a great love of horses. I have just bought a share in a horse who is having his first race in this country next Tuesday. My heart will be in my mouth while he is running but I will still enjoy watching him race and my main thoughts will be for him and the jockey to get home safely but accepting there are always risks. A horse owned by the same syndicate fell yesterday but fortunately was ok and will race again.
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