Horse-Racing- Cruel?

[pixie374]

To avoid disrupting Ken's thread, and to allow people to have their say...

My view is no. Because I believe mental health is just as important for animals as it is for people... and I have worked in Racing yards, Polo yards, Riding schools etc...

When you have bred an animal throughout hundreds of years to want to race, is it actually "kind" to wrap them in cotton wool instead forever? I now work with older people, and feel the same. Anything "fun" comes with some risk.

Obviously,there is no justification for cruelty or abuse, no matter what- and I doubt anyone would suggest there is.

So- horseracing? Fair or not?

[andy-hughes]

I know this will produce polarised views - it always does.

To my mind, you cannot make an animal the size of a race horse do something it doesn;t want to do, and if the horse didn't want to run, it simply wouldn't run.

I know there are occasions when race horses do no run as fast as their trainers know they can, and put it down to the simple fact that they didn't fancy running that fast on the day.

So my view would be that it is not cruel as a concept, which is not to say that there is not cruelty involved, but that is not the question.

[pixie374]

Thanks Andy. And absolutely right. We had one racehorse that got three chances... the first time, she raced and won. The second, she refused to leave the stalls. She just didn't want to. And the third, she did exactly the same. You can't ever force a horse do something it just doesn't want to.
My friend bought her and she loved and excelled at showjumping.

[Buenchico]

32 horses dead last month. 6 already this month:
https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/


>>> So- horseracing? Fair or not?

Not.

[andy-hughes]

Buenchico - //
32 horses dead last month. 6 already this month: //

Sadly, injury and death are a built-in risk in any number of sports and activities, but that does not make them cruel, it makes them risky, which is not the same thing at all.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Racing itself is not cruel . Its the Industry surrounding it that is cruel. As soon as big money is added to any sport involving animals it becomes cruel.
How on earth can you say, as a horse lover and rider, that breaking in a TB at 18 months old (usually horses are broken between 3-4 years old) is not cruel -their bones have not even set' yet. They do this because a horse not racing is a waste of time and money and they want to get them on the track as soon as possible.
Over the years horses have got lighter in build, bred for speed, even the NH horses. We are now seeing NH horses bred like flat racers, this is why their limbs break more easily -they are going far too fast into fences a lot of the time.

A big mistake is to anthropomorphize animals . Animals are concerned only with three things -to eat, to breed and to keep themselves safe. They do not 'enjoy' racing -they do it as its a natural instinct to run with the herd.
Most failed racehorses end up on French dinner plates -the unlucky ones end up owned by people who have not a clue and are kept inappropriately.
My horses are now retired but I did Endurance riding with them -they 'enjoyed' getting out to fresh places and getting excited running with other horses -but equally would be happy, as they are now, in a field being well looked after but not ridden.

[pixie374]

Chris, do you have the numbers of all other horses killed on the road, or elsewhere?

[Buenchico]

Injuries and deaths to the jockeys, I couldn't care less about, Andy.

Like Grand Prix drivers, parkour enthusiasts, mountaineers and boxers, they all accept that there are risks in their sports. However I don't seem to remember anyone asking the horses to accept risks of injury and death.

[pixie374]

Apg, I have never suggested that- nor ever worked anywhere where horses are broken in at 18 months.
Just to reiterate- abuse is abuse. Those that don't care, will continue not to.
But assuming that everyone with animals, is an uncaring criminal- is not the case either.

[dannyk13]

Flat racing is OK but National Hunt racing, eg the Grand National could be described as cruel.

[pixie374]

Apg //They do not 'enjoy' racing -they do it as its a natural instinct to run with the herd.//

That's where I can tell you, you are wrong. Like many animals bred over thousands of years for a particular aim- it is in their blood. And yes, they do "enjoy" it. Surely you have seen the sheer excitement of racehorses getting to a meet? There is an obvious difference between excitement and fear.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Pixie if you have worked in a Racing Yard you have worked with horses that have been broken in at 18 months old. Even NH horses are broken young then turned away as stores if they are not fast enough to hurdle.
Say a racehorse horse is born in Jan-Feb 2020 it will be broken usually the following Summer 2021.

[pixie374]

Chris, horses don't know or care... they just want to do it. It's inbred and instinctive. Quite honestly, keeping a racehorse in a stable and refusing to allow it to race- would be torturous.

[andy-hughes]

APG - // They do not 'enjoy' racing -they do it as its a natural instinct to run with the herd. //

You cannot know wha any animal does or does not enjoy.

I reiterate my previous point - if the horse did not wish to run, it would not run.

[pixie374]

No, never, apg. Where did you work? Even with racing prizes, it is far more costly to keep a racehorse than to race it. There is no advantage whatsoever, in racing one not ready or not willing.
Again, I'm not referring to abusive owners, which goes without saying. But to normal ones.

[andy-hughes]

APG - // ... they do it as its a natural instinct to run with the herd. //

If that were true, then why, when a horse reaches the front, and other horses are clearly not going to catch it, does it not slow down and wait for them to catch up? If a horse raises to 'run with the herd', when it found itself running on its own, it would stop.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Pixie you are mixing up 'Enjoyment' with 'Excitement'. My horses go nuts in the field, tails up bucking, if they see another horse go by or something unfamiliar goes down the lane (like a line of ramblers). This does not mean they are enjoying the situation, it means they are excited, ready for flight -a natural instinct.

Race horses are not bred to enjoy the sport they are bred to go faster.

[pixie374]

Andy, tbf, it's always very clear what an animal does or doesn't enjoy. People know them better than their own family, often. And horses and other animals do show if they are happy or not. Although, as you say, a horse that doesn't like racing- just won't.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Andy -some horses are more dominant than others. In a wild herd they will all take flight, but if a dominant horse comes up alongside a submissive one, the submissive one will give way.

[pixie374]

I'm not, apg- all horses do that and it is partly excitement and partly apprehension. Once you put horses in a lorry and turn up at a racecourse, they show excitement long before you arrive. There is a difference.

[tiggerblue10]

I don't like horse-racing because of the injuries some horses sustain at some races and then have to be euthanised. I'm not a horse lover, in fact I'm a bit scared of them but I can't see any animal hurt.

But then I feel like that about boxing as well.