Banning The Burka- Would It Work?

[fiction-factory]

As there hasn't been a new thread on burkas in the last hour I wanted to seek opinions on one point.
One argument raised a few times which i can understand is that it is a symbol of oppression of women. I think it often is. Some say they are forced to wear it against their will , some say they want to wear it and we shouldn't deny that freedom. I suggested a poll of Muslim women would give us more info but the idea was dismissed as i was told we wouldn't know if they were lying.

So, if a ban were introduced would it stop oppression? Would these men who currently force/pressure them to wear it let them go out without one or would they force them to stay indoors so that other men can't see their faces (in which cases they'd be even more oppressed) . Or would the men let them go out but insist they still cover up in public and risk arrest?

Also, from a practical point of view, could it be policed if some people still wear them? If a woman gets on a bus wearing one would the driver be expected to stop and call the police if she refused to uncover her face? Would a shop assistant be expected torefuse to serve them and call security or the police?
Do we know how well it's worked in other countries?

[237SJ]

Of course it wouldn't stop oppression. I had to protect a customer (Saudi) a while ago from being beaten up by her husband. She wasn`t wearing a burka. I have also seen western people (male and female) punching their spouces in my workplace.

[diddlydo]

In France where the burqa is banned in public, it has made women even more oppressed as they can't go out. End of. The idea of banning it in the UK is ludicrous.

[Old_Geezer]

A poll won't help. Some may fear bring honest, but worse, many have been taught it is correct and so actually believe it. What use would such a poll be ?

Of course the oppression bit is only part of the issue. The right to see who walks among us is very important too. Trumps any right to wear what one likes.

Also it's not about immediate cures, it's about changing attitudes and new generations not putting up with such impositions by their ancestor's culture.

From a practical pov it is a case of nibbling away at resistence. Police charge those they find, eventually the rest of them realise that they're being foolish and stop. Watch how it goes in Denmark.

[pixie374]

//In France where the burqa is banned in public, it has made women even more oppressed as they can't go out. End of//
That's the worst argument i have heard. Allow them to be oppressed in case they are oppressed more without it? Jesus.
It would be interesting if the Eds did a poll on this (would make a change from sport and cars...)

[kvalidir]

If you ban the Burqa in public then women will just be imprisoned in their homes either by their oppressive spouses you are so keen to save them from, or if they are not oppressed and do so willingly, from a sense of discomfort that they are being forced to reveal more of themselves than they are comfortable with in public. Imagine being told you can only wears speedos or bikinis when we go out? How would you feel?
It's no good trying to stop women being oppressed by oppressing them in an entirely different way. The problem is not women. The problem is not the Burqa. The problem is the idea what ANYONE ought to be able to tell anyone else what they can and can't wear.

[ToraToraTora]

yes they should be banned: "Also, from a practical point of view, could it be policed if some people still wear them? If a woman gets on a bus wearing one would the driver be expected to stop and call the police if she refused to uncover her face? " - Like every other law, when expedient to do so they would be prosecuted. The public are not obliged to inform the Police when other laws are broken and the police don't always prosecute, this would be no different.

[kvalidir]

Yeah and how long would it be until some EDL thug decided to make a citizens arrest and started a full blown race riot? Yeah that's what we want... I absolutely despair.

[237SJ]

Women aren't imprisoned in their homes if they don't wear a a burka. They have to wear an abaya in Saudi Arabia but they don't have to cover their faces. I don't. I have no covering over my face and head.

[Baldric]

Maybe a slightly different approach is needed, perhaps Businesses especially Banks and Building Societies could be given the right to refuse to deal with anyone whose face was covered. If all outlets, Supermarkets etc adopted the practice it would have quite an impact
on our Muslim friends.

[Hopkirk]

Just as an aside, Boris's article argued against following Denmark in banning face coverings.

With all the furore, you would think he had said the opposite.

[ToraToraTora]

kvalidir, not all offences are arrestable (by citizen) offences, just make it one of those, then only plod can do an arrest.

[kvalidir]

The point is WHY are we choosing to interfere with what people wear, it is a very basic freedom? Just because we suspect that some men insist their wives wear the veil does not give us the right to insist she doesn't.

[Zacs-Master]

Pixie, I disagree. How would you stop Muslim men keeping women indoors if a ban were to be introduced?

[woofgang]

so shall we ban people who cover their faces with anything? and where? masks when we are skiing? warm scarves in winter for people who have asthma and copd? people who have facial scars or other reasons to choose to cover their faces?

[pixie374]

That is already illegal, zacs. I don't agree with oppression just because it's easier to monitor.

[woofgang]

I know! we'll have a face coverage licence.....you have to present yourself to a committee and give reasons why when where and how you want to cover your face and the committee will decide whether you are allowed or not........

why not? its as silly as a ban

[Zacs-Master]

That’s not really answering my question tho, pixie. How would you stop it?

[andy-hughes]

I am always intrigued by the popular notion that Muslim women are 'oppressed' because they are forced to wear a burka.


Therefore, the response is, if we oppress them by forcing them not to wear a burka, that is somehow a solution to the oppression issue.

The simple fact is, westerners do not like burkas because they make them uneasy, and frightened, and I can completely understand that, but I would prefer a greater degree of honesty in the debate.

Some who actually thinks -

"Burkas are really strange and disquieting to me, and I don't like them … "

but says -

"Burkas are a sign of oppression and I want them banned …"

are in the same bracket as people who actually think -

"I really like chasing foxes around the countryside because I find the thrill of the chase exciting …"

but says

"Fox hunting is a country pursuit and townies don't understand country ways …"

Be honest - you'll get far more respect in the long run.

[-Talbot-]

In the long term, yes it would work.

[andy-hughes]

kval - // The point is WHY are we choosing to interfere with what people wear, it is a very basic freedom? Just because we suspect that some men insist their wives wear the veil does not give us the right to insist she doesn't. //

My last post gives you one notion to think about - we are frightened of cultural differences that look odd to us.