Banning The Burka- Would It Work?

[fiction-factory]

As there hasn't been a new thread on burkas in the last hour I wanted to seek opinions on one point.
One argument raised a few times which i can understand is that it is a symbol of oppression of women. I think it often is. Some say they are forced to wear it against their will , some say they want to wear it and we shouldn't deny that freedom. I suggested a poll of Muslim women would give us more info but the idea was dismissed as i was told we wouldn't know if they were lying.

So, if a ban were introduced would it stop oppression? Would these men who currently force/pressure them to wear it let them go out without one or would they force them to stay indoors so that other men can't see their faces (in which cases they'd be even more oppressed) . Or would the men let them go out but insist they still cover up in public and risk arrest?

Also, from a practical point of view, could it be policed if some people still wear them? If a woman gets on a bus wearing one would the driver be expected to stop and call the police if she refused to uncover her face? Would a shop assistant be expected torefuse to serve them and call security or the police?
Do we know how well it's worked in other countries?

[pixie374]

I didn't say I could stop it. I said I don't think we should condone oppression just because it's easier.

[Old_Geezer]

"The point is WHY are we choosing to interfere with what people wear, it is a very basic freedom?"

Of course the oppression bit is only part of the issue. The right to see who walks among us is very important too. Trumps any right to wear what one likes.

"so shall we ban people who cover their faces with anything? and where?"

The law wouldn't be garment specific. Anyone hiding their identity inappropriately in public would be asked to comply. Where something is being used for a reason other than to hide away, then chances are it would be appropriate. It ought not be beyond the wit of lawmakers to write laws adequately.

[Zacs-Master]

Well, you actually said it was the worst argument you’d ever heard. I thought seeing as you expressed that opinion, you’d be able to say why.

[pixie374]

^^ look above

[-Talbot-]

Suddenly everyone is worried about the oppressive male Muslim.

How odd.

[Old_Geezer]

We are disapproving of cultural differences that we can make an easy case for to show it is wrong.

[ToraToraTora]

there goes ZM jelly to the wall BS as usual, you can't stop it but false imprisonment is a crime and like all other crimes it can be prosecuted when encountered. Just because you can't stop something that is no reason for it not to be illegal.

[Zacs-Master]

You’re not making sense. If you vehemently condemn someone’s argument (as you did) saying you don’t condone oppression is a bit of a cop-out. No one in their right mind condones oppression, that’s a given.

[kvalidir]

I'm quite aware of why it's being proposed Andy, I'd just like a modicom of honesty like you x

'They are foreign people with ways strange and not our own and they scare me' is what is really being said.

[Zacs-Master]

There goes Torah, insulting people’s opinions with derogatory comments again because he doesn’t have the language capabilities to do anything else. You seriously think that the police would spend man hours knocking on Muslim’s doors asking if anyone was being kept inside?

[pixie374]

Many are condoning it, zacs.... keep them covered up or they might not be let out....! What sort of argument is that?
You can't refuse to make a law in case people decide to break other laws.

[Old_Geezer]

I see the straw man creation industry is alive & prospering.

[Theland]

Forget multiculturalism.
There is only one culture.
British culture.
Conform or get out.
By cultural tradition, do not walk in public naked, or with your face covered.

[kvalidir]

Pixie, no good can come of a law like that, it's an either/ or.
EITHER bad men you're trying to save them from will oppress them and they'll never be seen ( bet they'll enjoy that) OR they aren't oppressed in the first place and we are oppressing them by forcing them to wear clothing they are not comfortable with.
PLUS it chips away at everyone else's freedoms too, the thin end of the wedge if you will.

[kvalidir]

Well you can clear off with your Middle Eastern Christianity then whilst you're at it Theland, we don't want any of that foreign nonsense here after all. This makes me utter ashamed to be British, glad I'm leaving soon.

[kvalidir]

utterly

[pixie374]

The "thin end of the wedge" is never an excuse. Laws are usually very precise in how they are worded. It will take many years- but it will be worth it for everyone.

[ToraToraTora]

zm "you seriously think that the police would spend man hours knocking on Muslim’s doors asking if anyone was being kept inside? " - no but if she was encountered another way or managed to call the police I'd expect a prosecution. You really should look beyond you simple reasoning ability mate.

[fiction-factory]

Thanks all. Whilst I am well aware from experience that women in Muslim families /communities are too often treated as second class citizens, I feel it would be unwise for the government to include tackling the oppression of women as an argument for banning the burka. That would be very dodgy ground.
The case has to be based on social interaction in our culture relying on eye contact and seeing facial expressions, and we need to be able to recognise people whether it be for bus passes, driving licences, selling petrol/ cigarettes, giving descriptions to police, picking children up from school, etc etc .

[ToraToraTora]

where are you off to kval?