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Swine flu jab - would YOU have it?
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As an NHS "frontline" staff I've been offered the jab..."theory" tells me I should but ... I don't trust it has had all the correct tests, (even though they say it has)...look at the thalolimide story years ago...that was "safe" too.
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German friends have emailed to say there is a big fuss in Germany over the swine flu vaccine as there are (her words) 'First and Second rate vaccines'. The second rate are for 'ordinary people' and contain a lot of additives including mercury. The other vaccine is for the military and the Government!
No that's not enough detal and links like sky news are not reliable.
Weree talking about an "Adjuvant" aren't we?
There are two manufacturers Glaxo which uses it and Baxter which doesn't
No secret here ask if it's Baxter or GSK - if you're worried and it's GSK say no
http://www.parliament.../upload/postpn331.pdf
Weree talking about an "Adjuvant" aren't we?
There are two manufacturers Glaxo which uses it and Baxter which doesn't
No secret here ask if it's Baxter or GSK - if you're worried and it's GSK say no
http://www.parliament.../upload/postpn331.pdf
I certainly would, and I would be very angry on behalf of the seriously ill patients being put at risk by this irresponsible behaviour of those front line health service staff refusing the vaccine.. I am astonished, frankly, at the level of fear exhibited by some of the posters on this board, based upon nothing more than gossip, rumour and unfounded, evidence free allegations.
Sqad - I am normally broadly in agreement with you over most things health related where I am expert enough to have an informed opinion, but on this issue we are significantly at odds.
The only difference between this vaccine and the normal, standard, seasonal vaccine, that has been given to millions of recipients over decades are the actual trivalent viral antigens used, and even that specific element has been tested on thousands of individuals. These vaccines are incredibly safe, and there is excellent safety data supporting their use.
As far as adjuvants are concerned any adjuvant used in the swine flu vaccine has already been used in other many other vaccines given to thousands of individuals with excellent results.
Anything else contained within the vaccine is just trace from the manufacturing method, and is in ppb when coonsidered in relation to your average human.
In general terms, there is no significant, reputable, evidence supporting any of the assertions made agaiinst these elements retained from the manufacturing process.
Oh, and for those really paranoid inidividuals, these vaccines are even thimerosal free - the dreaded nanogramme level compounded mercury ( not free mercury, you understand, but compounded) is absent.
The only difference between this vaccine and the normal, standard, seasonal vaccine, that has been given to millions of recipients over decades are the actual trivalent viral antigens used, and even that specific element has been tested on thousands of individuals. These vaccines are incredibly safe, and there is excellent safety data supporting their use.
As far as adjuvants are concerned any adjuvant used in the swine flu vaccine has already been used in other many other vaccines given to thousands of individuals with excellent results.
Anything else contained within the vaccine is just trace from the manufacturing method, and is in ppb when coonsidered in relation to your average human.
In general terms, there is no significant, reputable, evidence supporting any of the assertions made agaiinst these elements retained from the manufacturing process.
Oh, and for those really paranoid inidividuals, these vaccines are even thimerosal free - the dreaded nanogramme level compounded mercury ( not free mercury, you understand, but compounded) is absent.
Lazygun....I do understand your viewpoint, but from the patients point of view:
It is a mild illness and only is dangerous to children, pregnant women and the "middle aged"
The Government hasn't helped by introducing 2 types of vaccine, adjuvant free and adjuvant added and this has caused a lot of discontent and the thought of 2standards of vaccine.
"As far as adjuvants are concerned any adjuvant used in the swine flu vaccine has already been used in other many other vaccines given to thousands of individuals with excellent results" I am on the clinical side and this is the first time that I have heard of the word "adjuvant" and it is not the excellent results that is worrying it is the side effects of this. Thousands have been tested you say, with excellent results and I accept this trial, but millions are going to be given the adjutant added vaccine. If the clinical medical professions are sceptical, you can understand the concern of the patients.
Vaccines are safer now as you quite rightly state, but I can understand the concern.
I am just putting the non scientific aspect to you.
It is a mild illness and only is dangerous to children, pregnant women and the "middle aged"
The Government hasn't helped by introducing 2 types of vaccine, adjuvant free and adjuvant added and this has caused a lot of discontent and the thought of 2standards of vaccine.
"As far as adjuvants are concerned any adjuvant used in the swine flu vaccine has already been used in other many other vaccines given to thousands of individuals with excellent results" I am on the clinical side and this is the first time that I have heard of the word "adjuvant" and it is not the excellent results that is worrying it is the side effects of this. Thousands have been tested you say, with excellent results and I accept this trial, but millions are going to be given the adjutant added vaccine. If the clinical medical professions are sceptical, you can understand the concern of the patients.
Vaccines are safer now as you quite rightly state, but I can understand the concern.
I am just putting the non scientific aspect to you.
Yes once I discoverred what you were talking about
Trouble with what's in your head is there's no way of finding out how it got there! - Even Wikipedia provides references.
So I then find a real scientific report on AS03 - which is the Adjuvant
http://informahealthc...517/14712590903066695
Results: The AS03-adjuvanted prepandemic H5N1 influenza vaccine allows for antigen sparing, has a good safety and acceptable reactogenicity profile, induces an immune response that not only meets all European Committee for Medicinal Products (CHMP) and FDA requirements for the vaccine strain but also generates neutralizing antibodies that broadly cross-react against H5N1 drift strains, and finally conveys protection in a ferret model against lethal challenges with homologous and heterologous H5N1 viruses.
And the safety data on the innoculation
http://www.emea.europ...a-combined-h832en.pdf
So in the context of all this expert reseach, it's approval by all the EU countries and the FDA
What do you know that they don't?
Trouble with what's in your head is there's no way of finding out how it got there! - Even Wikipedia provides references.
So I then find a real scientific report on AS03 - which is the Adjuvant
http://informahealthc...517/14712590903066695
Results: The AS03-adjuvanted prepandemic H5N1 influenza vaccine allows for antigen sparing, has a good safety and acceptable reactogenicity profile, induces an immune response that not only meets all European Committee for Medicinal Products (CHMP) and FDA requirements for the vaccine strain but also generates neutralizing antibodies that broadly cross-react against H5N1 drift strains, and finally conveys protection in a ferret model against lethal challenges with homologous and heterologous H5N1 viruses.
And the safety data on the innoculation
http://www.emea.europ...a-combined-h832en.pdf
So in the context of all this expert reseach, it's approval by all the EU countries and the FDA
What do you know that they don't?
Done lots of research on this topic and i will definatly NOT be having it. Read these links then make up your mind.
http://www.spectator....-tell-you-about.thtml
http://www.emea.europ...elvapan/H-982-en8.pdf ( the one we should have, but wont get as we get the cheap version which contains mercury )
http://www.spectator....-tell-you-about.thtml
http://www.emea.europ...elvapan/H-982-en8.pdf ( the one we should have, but wont get as we get the cheap version which contains mercury )
Tamirra - Why on earth would you cite one of the worst, most misleading articles ever on the swine flu vaccine as a reference?
Why on earth would you place any faith in a journo who knows nothing about science and medicine, but is always looking for a means to criticize the government?
The whole article is a steaming pile of crap with no clinical weight whatsoever.
Mercury can be extremely poisonous - thats elemental mercury. Elemental mercury is also a bioaccumulator - ie the amount of it in your tissues can build up over time, mostly from food like tuna.
The mercury in the vaccine is compounded - a bit like sodium is in common all garden salt. Whilst it might make up 50% of the compound by weight, each dose of vaccine contains around 5 microgrammes of thiomersal. It has been shown to metabolise into other compounds ( not elemental mercury). It also clears from the body within 4 days - it does not accumulate.
It is about 200 times less than the maximum permiited dose over a 6 month period to an infant.You are likely to injest a much larger dose of mercury from a tuna sandwich than from the vaccine.
The concerns over vaccine are as always the fact that a small proportion of those vaccinated will have an allergic style reaction to them. But as several cases recently have shown, swine flu can kill.
If you are going to do research, at least cite clinically or scientifically valid references.
Why on earth would you place any faith in a journo who knows nothing about science and medicine, but is always looking for a means to criticize the government?
The whole article is a steaming pile of crap with no clinical weight whatsoever.
Mercury can be extremely poisonous - thats elemental mercury. Elemental mercury is also a bioaccumulator - ie the amount of it in your tissues can build up over time, mostly from food like tuna.
The mercury in the vaccine is compounded - a bit like sodium is in common all garden salt. Whilst it might make up 50% of the compound by weight, each dose of vaccine contains around 5 microgrammes of thiomersal. It has been shown to metabolise into other compounds ( not elemental mercury). It also clears from the body within 4 days - it does not accumulate.
It is about 200 times less than the maximum permiited dose over a 6 month period to an infant.You are likely to injest a much larger dose of mercury from a tuna sandwich than from the vaccine.
The concerns over vaccine are as always the fact that a small proportion of those vaccinated will have an allergic style reaction to them. But as several cases recently have shown, swine flu can kill.
If you are going to do research, at least cite clinically or scientifically valid references.
Lazygun you go and have it then, and let us all see what happensto you.
Want to know what's in the vaccine? Thimersoral (50% mercury preservative) linked to autism, Octoxinol 9 (a vaginal spermicide), Squalene (linked to Gulf War Syndrome), Polysorbate 80 (an infertility agent), Organophosphates (linked to CNS disorders), shall I go on?! You want to inject that into your own body or into your child???
Want to know what's in the vaccine? Thimersoral (50% mercury preservative) linked to autism, Octoxinol 9 (a vaginal spermicide), Squalene (linked to Gulf War Syndrome), Polysorbate 80 (an infertility agent), Organophosphates (linked to CNS disorders), shall I go on?! You want to inject that into your own body or into your child???
Tamirra - You appear to have enthusiastically and uncritically taken on the anti- vaccination movements arguments whole and unchallenged, without any background investigation into their claims, mostly hysterical, conspiracy theory - orientated rubbish.
the alleged link between Thiomersal and Autism - Any suggested link has been completely and utterly debunked, Not least because if it had been true, then the fact that thiomersal has not been in child vaccines since 2001 should have meant the number of autism cases should drop no? And what has happened? number of cases has stayed precisely the same.
Squalene is a compound that you NATURALLY produce in your body, day in day out 24/7 - it is a biochemical precursor to cholesterol and other compounds important to health. - so how is a miniscule amount in a vaccine going to harm you? As for being linked to Gulf War Syndrome - one poor quality study with statistically insignificant studies does not any sort of case make - but of course your studies showed you that, didnt it? Oh, did I also mention that the people alleging some sort of link between trace amounts in vaccines and Gulf War Syndrome claimed it was the Anthrax vaccine that was the villian - but guess what? no squalene in the anthrax vaccine. Yet more unfounded, scientifically illilerate scaremongering.
the alleged link between Thiomersal and Autism - Any suggested link has been completely and utterly debunked, Not least because if it had been true, then the fact that thiomersal has not been in child vaccines since 2001 should have meant the number of autism cases should drop no? And what has happened? number of cases has stayed precisely the same.
Squalene is a compound that you NATURALLY produce in your body, day in day out 24/7 - it is a biochemical precursor to cholesterol and other compounds important to health. - so how is a miniscule amount in a vaccine going to harm you? As for being linked to Gulf War Syndrome - one poor quality study with statistically insignificant studies does not any sort of case make - but of course your studies showed you that, didnt it? Oh, did I also mention that the people alleging some sort of link between trace amounts in vaccines and Gulf War Syndrome claimed it was the Anthrax vaccine that was the villian - but guess what? no squalene in the anthrax vaccine. Yet more unfounded, scientifically illilerate scaremongering.
10 years of safety studies on a range of vaccines administered across all of europe using the adjuvant MF59, which contains squalene ( used to help emulsify the adjuvant - and an adjuvant is used to invoke a better immune response) involving 22 million doses, have shown NO ill effects from squalene.
Tween-80/Triton-X/Nonoxynol - 9 - All these compounds are detergents, used during the production phase on the vaccines. -They are present in the final product in trace quantities only, and can offer no direct health hazard . ( Other than the possible minor allergic reaction that a small proportion of individuals may face.) I hope that you and yours have stopped eating ice cream, since you would be ingesting much greater quantities of tween 80 in any mouthful of icecream that you are ever likely to see from a vaccine dose.
I have taken vaccines all my life, will continue to do so and have been extremely grateful that they were there and available to protect me and mine -In addtion, by taking such vaccines,I and my kids are doing our bit to protect the public as a whole by maintaining herd immunity.
Specifically, as far as Swine Flu is concerned, globally there have been an estimated 5,000 fatalities so far, many thousands more hospitalised with severe respiratory problems, and a disproportionately higher number of under 40s affected than with seasonal flu. The number is widely thought to be underreported, and we are still at an early stage of the epidemic.
Tween-80/Triton-X/Nonoxynol - 9 - All these compounds are detergents, used during the production phase on the vaccines. -They are present in the final product in trace quantities only, and can offer no direct health hazard . ( Other than the possible minor allergic reaction that a small proportion of individuals may face.) I hope that you and yours have stopped eating ice cream, since you would be ingesting much greater quantities of tween 80 in any mouthful of icecream that you are ever likely to see from a vaccine dose.
I have taken vaccines all my life, will continue to do so and have been extremely grateful that they were there and available to protect me and mine -In addtion, by taking such vaccines,I and my kids are doing our bit to protect the public as a whole by maintaining herd immunity.
Specifically, as far as Swine Flu is concerned, globally there have been an estimated 5,000 fatalities so far, many thousands more hospitalised with severe respiratory problems, and a disproportionately higher number of under 40s affected than with seasonal flu. The number is widely thought to be underreported, and we are still at an early stage of the epidemic.
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