stephen lawrence .

[anneasquith]

2 men have been convicted of the murder of stephen lawrence in 1993, what a dreadfully long time for justice to be done.

[Zhukov]

strewth..youre in a right old sannwich there ,ummmm :-(

[Zhukov]

*sandwich*

[ummmm]

I know....my reply might have got me banned, so I deleted it!

[shanghi]

I once read a newspaper report that said “Young killers don’t need much in the way of motives, and that large numbers of kids have enthusiastically embraced the concept of blowing away another human being ‘just for whatever.’ But what is the point of putting them in prison – it’s only like going to Butlins!

[Zhukov]

to keep them off our streets....nurrrr

[andy-hughes]

I completely fail to understand the comparison of jail to a holiday camp - proferred only by those who have never been incarcerated, never by those who have xperienced it.

Imagine, those who post this erronious comparison, that you have your TV, your PC, and occasional educational courses, and the price you pay for that is - in no particular order -

you cannpt walk down a street and buy a paper
you cannot shop for your tea in a supermarket
you cannot visit friends and family when ever you wish
where you sit, eat, walk and sleep are determioned for you by strangers
you have no say in the choice of whom you share your bedroom

those are just the first aspects that came into my head as I type - imagine any one of them removed from you for several years, if not life, never mind all of them - and try and imagine what sort of 'holiday camp' accomodation would make up for the loss of such fundamentals that we all take for granted every day - because we can do any and oall of them.

[jackthehat]

Is your life full of hardship, ansteyg?

You must live in the Bournemouth-projects, no?

[goodlife]

How much is a life worth? asks U.S.News & World Report. “In the U.S. today, the answer is seven years. That’s the median time convicted murderers spend behind bars, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.” Many don’t stay in jail even that long. According to a survey of 30 states, one out of every seven prisoners given a life sentence serves three years or less.

And as you are well aware, for good behaviour, prisoners in this country can get out sooner than their given sentence.

[rojash]

"And as you are well aware, for good behaviour, prisoners in this country can get out sooner than their given sentence."

Which country?
These two guys have been sentenced to minimum terms. That means that under no circumstances will they get out before those terms are served, and they have no guarantee that they will get out even then.

[New Judge]

In the UK there is no longer any “time off” for good behaviour. All prisoners serving a determinate sentence (i.e. one stated as “x years/months/days”) serve half their sentence in prison. At the half way stage they are automatically released (whether of good behaviour or not) and serve the remainder of their term “on licence” in the community. (Some schemes allow release earlier than that, but they need not concern us here). In the past prisoners were released early (usually two thirds of the way into their sentence) provided they had been of good behaviour. This “remission” could be reduced by the prison governor if the prisoner had misbehaved. A few years ago (cannot remember when) this principle was outlawed. The notion (somewhat perverse in my view) was that loss of remission was interpreted as being an additional prison sentence and only courts could impose prison sentences. Prison governors were not considered a “proper tribunal” and so could not impose additional custody.

However, interesting as all that is, prisoners sentenced to indeterminate sentences (such as “Life” or “Detained during Her Majesty’s Pleasure”) have a “minimum tariff” set by the judge. Only when this tariff has been served will the Parole Board consider whether the prisoner should be released. So in the case of the Stephen Lawrence pair (who have been “Detained during Her Majesty’s Pleasure”, which is the under-18’s version of “Life”) they will serve the 15 and 14 years set by the judge before being considered for release.

[NOX]

Well I'd certainly hope so Elphus- I don't think the police would have ever got into gear on this if it hadn't been for the Lawrence family, so I think it's a bit much for you to imply there has been any sort of ' favouritism' from the police because the victim was black. In fact it's laughable.

[joko]

id like to know WHY it took so long... saying the wheel of justice grind slowly doesnt really explain... what has been the hold up?

i thought they 'knew' who was guilty years ago and they know the others involved... as far back as 1994... so why has it taken til now to do this?

[ummmm]

DNA has progressed since then.

[New Judge]

It has taken so long, joko, because thankfully in the UK merely “knowing” who is guilty is not sufficient to secure a conviction. Although it’s sometimes a little inconvenient, there has to be sufficient evidence to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty. That is why the CPS dropped charges against the pair in 1993 and is also why the original (ill conceived) private prosecution launched by the Lawrence family in 1996 failed. Only recently, with advances in forensic science, has the adequate analysis of minute specks of evidential material been possible. That is why the prosecution has taken so long.

Oh, and there is also the small matter of a fundamental change in the law (most unusually applicable retrospectively) being required to enable the second prosecution of Gary Dobson for an offence for which he had already been acquitted once.

[sp1814]

Lord_Elpus

I assume you meant 'all the open-case murders' right?

Or do you think that the police should shelve any investigations into murder of non-whites.

When do you think they can re-open those cases? 2017? 2022?

Also, can you categorise 'white open-cases'? Do Meditteraneans count, or would you consider them a tad too 'dusky'?

[joko]

ah i see NJ...i didnt realise all that had already happened.

by saying 'knew' i didnt mean it in a 'had a feeling' type way, i meant i thought they knew because they had plenty of evidence and were certain of their guilt a long time ago.

i mean you would expect this sort of time length if the police were hunting blind and had no idea who had done it... but they've had a lot of time to put together the case.