ChatterBank3 mins ago
GrandParents denied access to their Grandchildren, adopted by Gay Couple.
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Shouldn't relatives be given the right to adopt their family's children before they are given out to strangers?
In this case the Grandmother will only be 58, and the Grandfather 73, when the boy reaches 18.
That is not old by today's standards.
Shouldn't relatives be given the right to adopt their family's children before they are given out to strangers?
In this case the Grandmother will only be 58, and the Grandfather 73, when the boy reaches 18.
That is not old by today's standards.
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Call me homophobic if you must but, as a Grandfather and Great-Grandfather, I don't think that I would wish any of my Great-Grand children, given away to be brought up by unknown Gays or any others that do not represent a certain criteria.
And if the truth was really known, no matter how Liberal minded some possess to be, when it came to their own 'flesh and blood' they would think the same.
And if the truth was really known, no matter how Liberal minded some possess to be, when it came to their own 'flesh and blood' they would think the same.
"I'm mainly thinking of the 11 years of relentless bullying as they go through school. Children are cruel, very cruel and they will not take account of the PC rules that adults do."
For a couple of years, I volunteered in numerous schools doing workshops on homophobic bullying. It's true that kids are sometimes bullied for having same-sex parents - but it's also true that they're sometimes not. So bear in mind you're not arguing against gay adoption because a child *will* be bullied - you're arguing against it because they *might* be. Those are two different things.
This puts having same-sex parents on a long list of things that kids *might* get bullied for. E.g. their clothes, their taste in television, the colour of their hair, sometimes their race or culture, etc. These are all serious problems and deserve to be treated as such, but the idea that this should be the only reason for preventing adults from raising children they are otherwise perfectly capable of raising is simply not sustainable.
For a couple of years, I volunteered in numerous schools doing workshops on homophobic bullying. It's true that kids are sometimes bullied for having same-sex parents - but it's also true that they're sometimes not. So bear in mind you're not arguing against gay adoption because a child *will* be bullied - you're arguing against it because they *might* be. Those are two different things.
This puts having same-sex parents on a long list of things that kids *might* get bullied for. E.g. their clothes, their taste in television, the colour of their hair, sometimes their race or culture, etc. These are all serious problems and deserve to be treated as such, but the idea that this should be the only reason for preventing adults from raising children they are otherwise perfectly capable of raising is simply not sustainable.
" I don't think that I would wish any of my Great-Grand children, given away to be brought up by unknown Gays or any others that do not represent a certain criteria. "
And what if they were?
I understand it's not what you'd like to happen, but if - heaven forbid - your great grandchildren were to be orphaned by some awful turn of events, and they ended up with a gay couple who were financially secure, loving and capable parents - what would you do?
Would you try to stop it? And would it be purely because the couple were gay?
What other criteria would they have to fill?
I understand this may seem personal, but you did bring it up and I think those are important questions.
And what if they were?
I understand it's not what you'd like to happen, but if - heaven forbid - your great grandchildren were to be orphaned by some awful turn of events, and they ended up with a gay couple who were financially secure, loving and capable parents - what would you do?
Would you try to stop it? And would it be purely because the couple were gay?
What other criteria would they have to fill?
I understand this may seem personal, but you did bring it up and I think those are important questions.
So its ok then, because some wont be bullied. Is that what you are saying? You are happy for your PC ideals to be put in front of child welfare?
Or are you claiming no child will be bullied?
AOG, think I would like to know more about the case, afterall if the Grandparents we say convicted of violence or worse then the kids would not be better off.
Or are you claiming no child will be bullied?
AOG, think I would like to know more about the case, afterall if the Grandparents we say convicted of violence or worse then the kids would not be better off.
Kromovaracun
Very nicely and sensitively put.
/// and they ended up with a gay couple who were financially secure, loving and capable parents - what would you do? ///
Yes that would meet a certain criteria, but not perfect, Ideally I would wish them be looked after by my wife and myself, if this was not possible, then by someone else in my family, if this wasn't possible then by a straight couple, if this was not possible, then by a Gay couple who I knew, and so on.
/// Would you try to stop it? And would it be purely because the couple were gay? ///
Being Gay would be one reason.
/// What other criteria would they have to fill? ///
Preferably of the same class, culture etc, etc.
May not be the PC answer that some might be looking for, but I still maintain when it comes to a personal level, others would take the more sensible attitude, rather than one that looks so self satisfying and PC on paper.
Very nicely and sensitively put.
/// and they ended up with a gay couple who were financially secure, loving and capable parents - what would you do? ///
Yes that would meet a certain criteria, but not perfect, Ideally I would wish them be looked after by my wife and myself, if this was not possible, then by someone else in my family, if this wasn't possible then by a straight couple, if this was not possible, then by a Gay couple who I knew, and so on.
/// Would you try to stop it? And would it be purely because the couple were gay? ///
Being Gay would be one reason.
/// What other criteria would they have to fill? ///
Preferably of the same class, culture etc, etc.
May not be the PC answer that some might be looking for, but I still maintain when it comes to a personal level, others would take the more sensible attitude, rather than one that looks so self satisfying and PC on paper.
There's more to this story than the Daily Mail has printed and it appears that everyone's forgotten a very important fact - the reason the grandchildren were put up for adoption is because their mother was a herion addict and the courts decided that it was in the children's best interest that they severed contact with the mother (don't know where the father is in all this).
The problem with allowing the grandparents to visit is the possibility that the the mother could find out where the children are and try to resume contact.
I question whether this would be in the best interests of the children.
Once a child is put up for adoption, they can seek out their birth family at 18, but up to that point, they effectively start a new life, with a new family.
The problem with allowing the grandparents to visit is the possibility that the the mother could find out where the children are and try to resume contact.
I question whether this would be in the best interests of the children.
Once a child is put up for adoption, they can seek out their birth family at 18, but up to that point, they effectively start a new life, with a new family.
I would be extremely wary of the slant given to this story by an avowed homophobic right-wing paper like the Mail.
I have no doubt that there are other factors of which we are not being made aware.
I would also ask for consideration of just how hard it is to raise children when your 'natural' child-rearing ddays are past.
Nature stops procreaction when it does for a very good reason - the ability of the majority of people to cope with children when they are past their best child-rearing years.
My youngest daughter has split for her husband and returned to live with us, bringing her tgwo-year-old son with us.
Bear in mind, he is an extremely well-behaved child, and his mum looks after him, with a little assistance from us.
But the presence of a lively two-year-old and the change in routines has had an affect on our sleeping patterns and changed our lives considerably.
If called on to raise any of my four grandchildren, i would do it in a heartbeat, but i am aware that age is a factor in parenting, so lets not to too keen to ignore that very salient factor in what is best of the children in this instance.
AOg - you refer to the grandparents being 58 and 73 by the time the boy reaches 18 - i will be 60 and my wife 59 by the time our eldest grandchild reaches that age, and trust me, from the age of 12, she has regarded us as older than Methuselah - as children do!
I have no doubt that there are other factors of which we are not being made aware.
I would also ask for consideration of just how hard it is to raise children when your 'natural' child-rearing ddays are past.
Nature stops procreaction when it does for a very good reason - the ability of the majority of people to cope with children when they are past their best child-rearing years.
My youngest daughter has split for her husband and returned to live with us, bringing her tgwo-year-old son with us.
Bear in mind, he is an extremely well-behaved child, and his mum looks after him, with a little assistance from us.
But the presence of a lively two-year-old and the change in routines has had an affect on our sleeping patterns and changed our lives considerably.
If called on to raise any of my four grandchildren, i would do it in a heartbeat, but i am aware that age is a factor in parenting, so lets not to too keen to ignore that very salient factor in what is best of the children in this instance.
AOg - you refer to the grandparents being 58 and 73 by the time the boy reaches 18 - i will be 60 and my wife 59 by the time our eldest grandchild reaches that age, and trust me, from the age of 12, she has regarded us as older than Methuselah - as children do!
"So its ok then, because some wont be bullied. Is that what you are saying?"
Nope.
What I'm saying is that people who make the 'bullying' argument tend to portray the situation as thought the child will definitely be bullied, and this is simply not true. Some are, and some aren't. It might sound pedantic, but it's important - a claim that children will certainly be bullied if they have same-sex parents is untrue, and a claim that they might be bullied is true. It's typically the former claim which people tend to make.
I should say that I was bullied at school - consistently. It's not something I would wish on anyone. It's the main reason I hated school, I was miserable. But if bullying worries you then the course of action is to adopt a zero-tolerance attitude to bullying, not deny families with same-sex parents the right to exist. Bullying of children with same-sex parents is no more or less serious than the bullying inflicted on children who are ginger, or who wear the wrong kinds of clothes, or who watch the wrong kind of television - none of these should be tolerated, and that is the responsibility of schools and society at large. I don't see that it's a good reason to place a barrier between children who desperately need families, and a whole section of parents who all research that I am aware of decisively indicates are as loving, caring and capable of raising a child as are heterosexual couples.
Nope.
What I'm saying is that people who make the 'bullying' argument tend to portray the situation as thought the child will definitely be bullied, and this is simply not true. Some are, and some aren't. It might sound pedantic, but it's important - a claim that children will certainly be bullied if they have same-sex parents is untrue, and a claim that they might be bullied is true. It's typically the former claim which people tend to make.
I should say that I was bullied at school - consistently. It's not something I would wish on anyone. It's the main reason I hated school, I was miserable. But if bullying worries you then the course of action is to adopt a zero-tolerance attitude to bullying, not deny families with same-sex parents the right to exist. Bullying of children with same-sex parents is no more or less serious than the bullying inflicted on children who are ginger, or who wear the wrong kinds of clothes, or who watch the wrong kind of television - none of these should be tolerated, and that is the responsibility of schools and society at large. I don't see that it's a good reason to place a barrier between children who desperately need families, and a whole section of parents who all research that I am aware of decisively indicates are as loving, caring and capable of raising a child as are heterosexual couples.
Further to the question of bullying - we should also remember that kids do not follow a pre-determined template. We cannot assume in what way, the children in same-sex families will react to bullying. Some will shrug it off, some won't, some will be very popular at school because they're funny, some will be extrovert, some will be introverted, some will be gifted sports players...etc.
All these factors will determine their school career.
Something else to consider...just as some kids will bully/tease children with same sex parents, some will go the opposite way and be supportive, whilst many will simply not care that much. Remember - teenagers are spectacularly self-interested.
Also, let's remember the clear distinction between 'bullying' and 'mickey-taking' and we sould be wary of thinking of them as synonyms.
All these factors will determine their school career.
Something else to consider...just as some kids will bully/tease children with same sex parents, some will go the opposite way and be supportive, whilst many will simply not care that much. Remember - teenagers are spectacularly self-interested.
Also, let's remember the clear distinction between 'bullying' and 'mickey-taking' and we sould be wary of thinking of them as synonyms.
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