Who would you believe ?

[bazwillrun]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../uk-politics-19698141

one lot , a bunch of public servants that lie an awful lot ... or another lot , a bunch of public servants that lie an awful lot !

According to the top police honcho dealing with it, its not the fact he may have called the copper a pleb, he says "we're pretty thick skinned", its the fact mitchell is calling the police liars

[McMouse]

I always believe what police officers say, especially if they have all written down identical contemporaneous notes in their books.

[rojash]

Obnoxious man loses temper with police officer, insults him, then apologises.

That's it.

I can't believe that Labour and the Police Federation are demanding a Public Enquiry, or that the news media are still running with trivial nonsense.

[Baldric]

Or the sixty something that didn't match, do now. Very reassuring

[sunny-dave]

"A plague on both your houses" ...

... just about sums it up for me.

The copper was being an obnoxious jobsworth, the MP was being a supercilious arse.

[goodlife]

Many things you could believe that really would not make any difference to your welfare. For example, he considered himself to be an honest man. His parents had? taught him not to lie or cheat. But where did that get him? He did not like corruption, but he realized that he might never get ahead by honest means.
If, however, we really believe that God exists, it will make a difference. Why? Because we will feel answerable to Him. Hence, when, for example, we are faced with a decision or a temptation, we will not only think: “What do I want to do?” we will also consider: “What will be pleasing to God? The apostle Paul once stated: “Each of us will render an account for himself to God.”—Rom. 14:12.So you know how I feel.

[ludwig]

The main problem is that he's obviously a liar. If he'd have just apologised and hadn't denied calling them ******* plebs, it would have all blown over by now. Unfortunately for him, he's painted himself into that corner.

[jake-the-peg]

There are two issues here

Firstly the overt one that he, in his position was not paying the police "appropriate respect" and yes - he was tired and bad tempered and all that stuff and what's the big deal.

Then there's the other one - that he used the word "pleb" - no body's interested in the F word preceding it it's the P word that is doing the damage!

There is a stereitype of Tories who are all privilleged Eton twits who think they're better than anybody else and that other people are beneath them and referring to someone like a Policeman in that way perfectly sums up that attitude and seems to vindicate people's prejudices.

If he'd called him a pudding the issue would be over now - it's the P word that's doing the damage

[ludwig]

...and the fact that he's prepared to lie about it Jake, and stupid enough to think the police involved wouldn't bother arguing their side of it when effectively called liars by him.

These are the things now doing the damage. He could have got away with the P word with an apology.

[ABerrant]

Surely it's the third issue that matters - the lies.

It is hardly ever the initial "sin" which brings a politician down, it is the attempt at the cover up.

"I did not swear or say pleb"

"Errm, I did swear [for which I apologise] but did not say pleb"

[ludwig]

// It is hardly ever the initial "sin" which brings a politician down, it is the attempt at the cover up. //

Exactly. They never seem to learn that though. They always choose the cover up route.

[jake-the-peg]

No the lies are incidental as baz points out we expect politicians to lie to attempt to cover their ar$es.

Even if the lying damages him it's limited to him.

The use of the word "Pleb" is contageous it has the potential to stick like manure to the whole Tory party.

[ludwig]

Well it's the whole package really isn't it?

1 - Obnoxious enough to swear at the police for doing their job.
2 - Pompous and toffee nosed enough to use the word pleb.
3 - Deceitful enough to deny it afterwards
4 - Stupid enough to think he could get away with c)

[ABerrant]

I believe the lying is fundamental rather than incidental. It is only damaging to him and as such he should go - sacked rather than waiting for a resignation that will never come.

It is incidental to attach the actions of this man as indicative of the Party as a whole.

[ludwig]

..did I miss anything? oh yeah.

e) Insensitive enough to pick a moment when two police had just been murdered to have a public slanging match with them over such a stupid thing as having the gate opened for him so he could swan through without having to get off and push his bike 10 yards.

[LazyGun]

If we are to believe the contemporaneous police notes as to what Mr. Mitchell said - and we have no reason not to - then the incident says two important things. The first is that Mr. Mitchell, although not flat out calling the Police Officers liars, is being very careful with the wording of his continued denial of what he is alleged to have said. I do not expect my public representatives to flat out lie - I might expect them to massage facts, or impart a positive spin, or not tell the whole story - but I do not expect them to lie, and when they are caught out in a lie ,what should be done about it?
The second issue is that, in times of extremis or anger, we can often, through what we say, demonstrate what our real attitudes are - And it is quite telling that Mr.Mitchell elected to use the phrases he did. It would seem that he sees workers like Police Officers as being an inferior class to him and the others that run the country. I do not want an individual with such attitudes in the cabinet, personally.

I think others are right - no one is too upset or offended by the industrial swear words - Its what he says that reveals an attitude of privilege and assumed superiority that it annoying, and the fact that by sticking to his story, he is effectively calling 2 police officers liars.

Any Tory strategist is going to be cursing Mr Mitchell I would imagine... :)

[pdq1]

I'm surprised the newspapers have'nt sought out the two bystanders who witnessed the whole event. Also what about video evidence. On the day that the footballer John Terry is being charged using video evidence and lip reading specialists you mean to tell me that the polce don't have similar evidence at Downing street.

[sandyRoe]

Strange time when a politician will readily admit to calling a police officer a ****ing ***T but blanches when accused of calling him a 'pleb'.

[FredPuli43]

He may not represent the whole party but you may judge people by the company they keep. Cameron has him as Chief Whip.How does someone with such obnoxious opinions, such an attitude, come to be chosen by Cameron? Is it a requirement for being Chief Whip that you are, at heart, an offensive snob and so this defect is seen as a benefit? It's the word 'pleb' , let alone the other words, which, used in anger, show us the man.

[youngmafbog]

Wakey wakey Plod do lie. I know this from personal experience, we all know it from two weeks ago when things that were 'written down' turned out to be false (Hillsbourgh). And Politicians definitely lie.

The Police Federation are angry and will do anything to ge the Tories or LIb Dems. Labour are simply opportunists.

Some of the Police are plebs. I know this from experience, many are thick as planks. do you really think this Policeman was whiter than white?

This is a non story.