Another Superb Example...

[bazwillrun]

of the filth we have infecting our towns and cities

of course its not their fault is it !?....must be somebody or something else, society is to blame !, but definitely not their fault

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-hunt-laughing-thugs-who-kicked-young-woman-unconscious-on-london-bridge-bus-in-shocking-attack-8976652.html

[sp1814]

I don't think a form of national service is necessarily a bad thing.

Don't they have this in Greece and (I think) Sweden?

The problem is - when would it start? At the age of 16 or 18? Those ages are all a bit difficult to fit a couple of years NT into...because of the requirements of further education.

And if you left it until 21, then you pretty much miss getting the teenagers for whom this form of discipline could be of benefit.

How did it work in Britain when there was NT? Does anyone know?

[Svejk]

Lol at Sandy.. (You wee devil)

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// On the other hand...it is 'another superb example' of why it's preferable to avoid (if you can) night buses.///

What and create yet another 'no-go area', so that the criminal element can then have there very own transport, until they've made enough to acquire a BMW on the cheap.

[Ellipsis]

Peter Pedant> usual violence on night bus ... I am not sure there is a political point to be made

Exactly.

[Zeuhl]

/What do you suggest then, move them all into more affluent areas/

The effects of social surroundings take at least 30 years to adjust and rely on rather more than an address

After all, we wouldn't expect aog to magically transform into a broad minded analytical thinker or someone with good levels of self awareness just because we moved him to a 'more affluent area' than he lives in now

[ummmm]

AOG - they experimented with night buses in my town. I went on one once and that was the first and last time. Loads of drunk people in a small space is a recipe for disaster. Nothing at all to do with no go areas.

[Zeuhl]

/the problem of gangs, dare I suggest a return to National Service? /

So the logic (?) is; impose a two year interruption to the lives of the majority in order to (possibly) address a problem that afflicts a tiny minority

Re: aog's analytical thinking skills - I refer you to my preceding post :-)

[sp1814]

ummmm's right. A mixture of testosterone and alcohol generally makes night buses a nightmare.

Whenever I've been on one, there's always been rowdy behaviour, which given the confined spaces can easily lead into fights.

But much more so in the West End (of London), than out in the suburbs.

Also night trains coming in from or going out to the suburbs on a weekend - not nice places.

[jim360]

I don't have a solution, I have an idea. And it's hardly a unique idea either.

"You cannot import into one culture another completely different set of cultures and expect them to adapt to a culture completely alien to their own. "

I think this was the social experiment that was conducted in the 50s and beyond where a large number of people started to come into this country and very clearly no-one seemed to think that this might not be easy for everyone to adjust to. The social experiment then was one where we just try to let everyone sort things out on their own. The approach I'm suggesting is very different and involves trying to engage with such people as may grow up to become gang members, thugs, criminals etc. Where it's been tried such intervention is known to make a difference. That there is a long way to go still suggests that we need more intervention rather than less.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// When the liberal left were not in control -- in, say, 1979-1997, or perhaps between 1951 and 1964 -- what was the excuse then? ///

Wasn't the arrival of the Empire Windrush the start of mass immigration into the UK?

*** An advert had appeared in a Jamaican newspaper offering cheap transport on the ship for anybody who wanted to come and work in the UK. At that time, there were no immigration restrictions for citizens of one part of the British Empire moving to another part. ***

1948 under Labour government.

And it was not until the Tories came to power that some control was legislated.

*** The arrival of the Empire Windrush immediately prompted complaints from some members of parliament, but legislation controlling immigration was not passed until 1962 ***

1962 under Conservative Government.

[charlieuniform3]

Can I point out the elephant in the room - we don't know if the girl gobbed off at the youths!

also, we don't know if the youths families have been here for generations! Do white gangs not do this sort of thing then?

[sp1814]

AOG

What ideas do you have on National Service?

[jim360]

Even if she did say something to provoke the gang it was only an excuse for them. At least one incident I'm aware of started when someone threw a bottle-top (or something like it) at another person and then got all angry and irritated when he looked round to see who had thrown it. His older brother intervened and so he escaped being attacked... his brother wasn't so lucky and was attacked the day after.

[B00]

"Can I point out the elephant in the room - we don't know if the girl gobbed off at the youths! "

That's irrelevant!

No one, whatever the verbal provocation deserves to be set upon by a gang to the point of unconsciousness.

[mccfluff]

its doesn't matter what she said, she didn;t deserve to be beaten up

what was the bus driver doing?

[anotheoldgit]

charlieuniform3

/// Can I point out the elephant in the room - we don't know if the girl gobbed off at the youths! ///

Makes no difference whatsoever, no matter what she said, she shouldn't have been subjected to this kind of assault.

/// also, we don't know if the youths families have been here for generations! ///

What as that got to do with it, no matter if they have been here a hundred years or just arrived on the day it happened..

/// Do white gangs not do this sort of thing then? ///

Yes I know it can be uncomfortable to some that in this case they happen to be black, but what do you expect the police to say, "we are not taking any action against this black gang, because white gangs do exactly the same sort of thing"?

[anotheoldgit]

mccfluff

/// what was the bus driver doing? ///

Most likely driving the bus.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// What ideas do you have on National Service? ///

Why do you ask? you most likely have your own thoughts on the subject, so I don't suppose you would take mine on board, even if I were to tell you.

[anneasquith]

scum,

[charlieuniform3]

I am not saying she deserved to be beaten up - but women are not the shrinking violets some think they are - she could have been mouthing off and provoking them. Would you be able to control yourself if you were called racist names?

My point about generations etc was the comment from the OP over the filth infecting our town and cities - they may have lived there for years and you do not know the full story!