Now See What Such Films As "12 Years A Slave" Sets Off?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2577932/MAX-HASTINGS-Yes-slavery-evil-But-insane-force-pay-damages-age-old-wrongs.html

/// He and his clients have chosen their moment well. The global triumph of the movie 12 Years A Slave has thrust the sufferings of millions of Africans to the forefront of public attention, awakening many consciences about the crimes committed in the name of European and American civilisation. ///

Why should this country or any other country for that matter pay out compensation for something that happened hundreds of years ago?

/// Slavery was an unspeakably evil commerce. But many societies across the world — the ‘Land of the Free’ foremost among them — were in it up to their necks, as were a host of African tribal chieftains and Arab traders. ///

/// Britain is today at the top of the Caribbean nations’ hit-list chiefly because our government and judges are thought to be the softest touch on earth, as indeed they are. ///

[emmie]

it's not my loss, i didn't want to see it even after watching the trailers,

[emmie]

and if they show these films in schools, what do you think that the children will make of them, they are films, dramas, they may represent real events, but books, and documentaries, can do that just as effectively. You can teach children about the Holocaust, but one way to get it across, is to take a group or class to Auschwitz, i am not suggesting that would always be possible, going on the costs, but believe me, seeing it for yourself is not like watching a film.

[ChillDoubt]

You can teach children about the Holocaust, but one way to get it across, is to take a group or class to Auschwitz, i am not suggesting that would always be possible, going on the costs, but believe me, seeing it for yourself is not like watching a film.
-----------------------
I know, I went to Auschwitz, Dachau and Bergen-Belsen whilst based in W. Germany with HM Forces.
As you say, cost would be a major factor, hence my idea for the use of film.

[jno]

the British were just as likely to end up the other side of the world, held as slaves until they perished.

"Just as likely" to end up in slavery as Africans? That's a big claim. Do you have any figures to back it up? Just how many Britons were enslaved over the last 300 years?

[campbellking]

I discussed the Mau Mau situation with one of my patients recently (white British gentleman) who had served over in Kenya when this was going on. He said the Kenyans are fully justified in seeking compensation and what happened over there was truly disgusting. I believe him to be much better informed about the situation than I could hope to be.

[emmie]

i did say not just from Britain,
http://www.dieli.net/SicilyPage/MedTimeline/BarbaryPirates.html

[emmie]

interesting, and does show rough estimates, no one know for sure, but to suggest it was a few would be totally wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/white_slaves_01.shtml

[LazyGun]

I am still unsure what point you are trying to make, emmie.
Is it that descendants of black slaves are wrong to sue because there were slaves of other ethnicities/nationalities?
Or that because slavery was so commonplace they have no special grievance?
Or is it that the numbers of afro-americans taken into slavery was dwarfed by slaves of other ethnicities/nationalities?

[emmie]

that if the government bows down to their demands, who next, first it's the Mau Mau, so what if it's within living memory, it was an ugly episode, but it can't be changed, how do the British and Anzac prisoners of the Japanese in WW2 get reparation for their vile treatment, i don't think they do, the Japanese have never seen their treatment of POW's as harsh, it was their way. And exactly who pays and who gets the money, for this centuries old matter, ugly and pitiful as it undoubtedly was. The point i am making, is that it's not always black folk who were made slaves, they were in their millions, but so have other people in their millions, man is one of those rare animals, he likes to have dominion over others, to control for the use of, it barbarism, and has undoubtedly been here since man first walked the earth. If they consider paying reparation, who pays?

[LazyGun]

"that if the government bows down to their demands, who next, first it's the Mau Mau, so what if it's within living memory, it was an ugly episode, but it can't be changed, how do the British and Anzac prisoners of the Japanese in WW2 get reparation for their vile treatment, i don't think they do, the Japanese have never seen their treatment of POW's as harsh, it was their way."

But the government have not "bowed down to their demands". The case has not even reached court yet, even supposing it does. And they will have to pass the same barrier you have mentioned, which essentially is historicity.

So to wave ones hands around in the air right now, figuratively shouting "won't somebody think of the children" is just redundant.

As for the Mau Mau - you think they were not due reparation; Many, including myself would disagree vehemently, and thats the opinion the courts arrived at.

As to reparations for British/Anzac prisoners at the hands of the Japanese; The Japanese paid agreed upon reparations after WWII ended, and paid a high price in the legacy of nuclear bombs. It differs from what happened with the Mau Mau in that Japanese society prisoners and those who surrended were regarded as less than human; We British are supposedly better than that; we do not do torture.

But there would be nothing stopping british or anzac or US ex-servicemen taking legal action against the Japanese; It has happened in the US with a class action against japanese companies based in the US.

[joko]

there are billions of people all over the world whose ancestors suffered some terrible wrong - should they all be compensated too?

where does it stop?
my sister was beaten up 10 years ago - should i be compensated for that?
who should compensate me?
i guess anyone from britain will do, whether they had anything to do with it or not, as it was a british person who beat her up...?
i am being facetious obviously.

the only people who deserve compensation are the people it actually happened to - and unfortunately - or actually fortunately depending on which way you look at it - they are all dead.

[Booldawg]

Maybe the pyramids in Egypt could be destroyed as they are an iconic reminder of slave labour.

[naomi24]

^^ I agree. Utterly ridiculous.

[naomi24]

^^ That was to joko.

[royfromaus]

Maybe the pyramids in Egypt could be destroyed as they are an iconic reminder of slave labour.



Were the pyramids built by slaves?

[AB Editor]

It has generally considered to be so in the past Roy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques

(but not any more apparently)

[jno]

they were well fed and had medical care

http://www.livescience.com/28961-ancient-giza-pyramid-builders-camp-unearthed.html

[sp1814]

AOG

Do you think that '12 Years A Slave', a film that won the Best Film award at the Oscars and saw the first ever black man (a Briton nonetheless) nominated as Best Director at said awards, should not have been made?

Or do you think it's better that it got made, entertained those of us who saw it, and gave others such as yourself, something to debate?

[sp1814]

Another general question...people who ask, "Where will it end...?"

Well, it didn't begin here. It began with reparations to Native Americans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6765156/US-to-spend-3bn-compensating-native-Americans.html

So the question might be - if Native Americans can be compensated for historical wrongs...

...you see what I'm getting at...

[anotheoldgit]

Can't some of you work out what is a serious comment from one that is designed to attract attention, that is the whole point of headlines.

My reference to the film 12 YEARS A SLAVE was used by me simply because the author of this piece Max Hastings chose to put this passage in his article.

/// The global triumph of the movie 12 Years A Slave has thrust the sufferings of millions of Africans to the forefront of public attention, awakening many consciences about the crimes committed in the name of European and American civilisation. ///

And surely most would agree that such films do awaken certain feelings amongst some, who otherwise just would get on with their 21st century lives, and thinking what their lives would have now been like if all those hundreds of years ago their distant ancestor hadn't been shipped out from Africa, would they now have been film Directors/Producers/ Actors etc etc?

Many horrific and inhuman things were committed on humans by other humans in the historic past, are persons living in the 21st century still to be taken into account for the sins of their ancestors, where can the line be drawn, are we to still to persecute the ancestors of Nazi and Japanese war criminal who are long dead?