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Now See What Such Films As "12 Years A Slave" Sets Off?
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/// He and his clients have chosen their moment well. The global triumph of the movie 12 Years A Slave has thrust the sufferings of millions of Africans to the forefront of public attention, awakening many consciences about the crimes committed in the name of European and American civilisation. ///
Why should this country or any other country for that matter pay out compensation for something that happened hundreds of years ago?
/// Slavery was an unspeakably evil commerce. But many societies across the world — the ‘Land of the Free’ foremost among them — were in it up to their necks, as were a host of African tribal chieftains and Arab traders. ///
/// Britain is today at the top of the Caribbean nations’ hit-list chiefly because our government and judges are thought to be the softest touch on earth, as indeed they are. ///
/// He and his clients have chosen their moment well. The global triumph of the movie 12 Years A Slave has thrust the sufferings of millions of Africans to the forefront of public attention, awakening many consciences about the crimes committed in the name of European and American civilisation. ///
Why should this country or any other country for that matter pay out compensation for something that happened hundreds of years ago?
/// Slavery was an unspeakably evil commerce. But many societies across the world — the ‘Land of the Free’ foremost among them — were in it up to their necks, as were a host of African tribal chieftains and Arab traders. ///
/// Britain is today at the top of the Caribbean nations’ hit-list chiefly because our government and judges are thought to be the softest touch on earth, as indeed they are. ///
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"My reference to the film 12 YEARS A SLAVE was used by me simply because the author of this piece Max Hastings chose to put this passage in his article."
But you have a mind of your own AOG. You don't need to parrot what Max Hastings has said.
I genuinely don't understand your ongoing interest with '12 Years A Slave'.
Have you actually seen it?
Why do you focus on this film? What impact has it had...apart from thrusting Steve McQueen into the public consciousness in the US?
Do you feel the same concerns about the recent (very successful)!Colin Firth movie The Railwayman?
But you have a mind of your own AOG. You don't need to parrot what Max Hastings has said.
I genuinely don't understand your ongoing interest with '12 Years A Slave'.
Have you actually seen it?
Why do you focus on this film? What impact has it had...apart from thrusting Steve McQueen into the public consciousness in the US?
Do you feel the same concerns about the recent (very successful)!Colin Firth movie The Railwayman?
sp1814
/// But you have a mind of your own AOG. You don't need to parrot what Max Hastings has said. ///
Of course I have a mind of my own, and well you know it, also with a lot more years of experience than your own.
It is not a question of parroting what others have said, only using their article in for reference to what is being discussed, this is the way issues are reported on, (something one has said or done), if one did not 'parrot' there would be no need for reporters or commentators to attend press conferences, bulletins, etc, etc. so as to quote what a person has said.
/// I genuinely don't understand your ongoing interest with '12 Years A Slave'. ///
It would appear that there was more ongoing interest with this by yourself and others than myself, seeing that some of you choose to take me up on this than the prime purpose of my thread, which if you have not already forgot was the need for any country to pay compensation for something that took place hundreds of years ago.
/// Do you feel the same concerns about the recent (very successful)!Colin Firth movie The Railwayman? ///
Not particular either way, but if I had it would be more fitting, seeing that what took place in the film The Railwayman actually happened during my lifetime, and the victims of such inhuman slavery committed against them, are still alive and do not need reminding.
Whereas the victims portrayed in the film 12 Years A Slave are long gone, and even their descendants, most whom can only attach themselves with these ancient slaves by the colour of their skin and the countries where their most present relatives come from. .
/// But you have a mind of your own AOG. You don't need to parrot what Max Hastings has said. ///
Of course I have a mind of my own, and well you know it, also with a lot more years of experience than your own.
It is not a question of parroting what others have said, only using their article in for reference to what is being discussed, this is the way issues are reported on, (something one has said or done), if one did not 'parrot' there would be no need for reporters or commentators to attend press conferences, bulletins, etc, etc. so as to quote what a person has said.
/// I genuinely don't understand your ongoing interest with '12 Years A Slave'. ///
It would appear that there was more ongoing interest with this by yourself and others than myself, seeing that some of you choose to take me up on this than the prime purpose of my thread, which if you have not already forgot was the need for any country to pay compensation for something that took place hundreds of years ago.
/// Do you feel the same concerns about the recent (very successful)!Colin Firth movie The Railwayman? ///
Not particular either way, but if I had it would be more fitting, seeing that what took place in the film The Railwayman actually happened during my lifetime, and the victims of such inhuman slavery committed against them, are still alive and do not need reminding.
Whereas the victims portrayed in the film 12 Years A Slave are long gone, and even their descendants, most whom can only attach themselves with these ancient slaves by the colour of their skin and the countries where their most present relatives come from. .
12 years a slave
/some of you choose to take me up on this than the prime purpose of my thread/
Well you wrote the title for your question ...
/Now See What Such Films As "12 Years A Slave" Sets Off?/
/I have a mind of my own, and well you know it, also with a lot more years of experience than your own. /
Evidently, there is no correlation between living a long time and intelligence
/some of you choose to take me up on this than the prime purpose of my thread/
Well you wrote the title for your question ...
/Now See What Such Films As "12 Years A Slave" Sets Off?/
/I have a mind of my own, and well you know it, also with a lot more years of experience than your own. /
Evidently, there is no correlation between living a long time and intelligence
AOG
If the main purpose of your thread was the question of reparations, then there was no need to even allude to the film.
But your question actually referred to the film.
Why do you think it 'set off' reparation claims?
Do you think that people thought - "Oh yeah...I'd forgotten about slavery. Wonder if we should make a claim!"
Nah.
All that this does (for me personally), is remember what a good film it was, and reawaken the disappointment that the great British director Steve McQueen didn't get the Best Director Oscar.
I'm sure all patriotic Britons feel the same (despite Gravity's success).
If the main purpose of your thread was the question of reparations, then there was no need to even allude to the film.
But your question actually referred to the film.
Why do you think it 'set off' reparation claims?
Do you think that people thought - "Oh yeah...I'd forgotten about slavery. Wonder if we should make a claim!"
Nah.
All that this does (for me personally), is remember what a good film it was, and reawaken the disappointment that the great British director Steve McQueen didn't get the Best Director Oscar.
I'm sure all patriotic Britons feel the same (despite Gravity's success).
AOG
Last question...are there any other areas of history which should be avoided?
How about WW1?
Or the Crimea?
Would it be okay for Paramount to remake 'A Christmas Carol'?
What that new film Pompeii? That has slaves in it too...
Dangerous territory.
Was it okay for Tarantino to make Django Unchained?
Last question...are there any other areas of history which should be avoided?
How about WW1?
Or the Crimea?
Would it be okay for Paramount to remake 'A Christmas Carol'?
What that new film Pompeii? That has slaves in it too...
Dangerous territory.
Was it okay for Tarantino to make Django Unchained?
AOG
Who told you that '12 Years A Slave' set off these claims?
Was it Max Hastings?
Don't you think he's simply illustrating the background to these claims for reparation?
Was Max indicating (as you clearly have in your question), that there is some causality between the release of the film and these claims?
If so - what evidence do you have?
Who told you that '12 Years A Slave' set off these claims?
Was it Max Hastings?
Don't you think he's simply illustrating the background to these claims for reparation?
Was Max indicating (as you clearly have in your question), that there is some causality between the release of the film and these claims?
If so - what evidence do you have?
SP
Max Hastings makes no claim to causality between the movie and claims for compensation.
Which is why aog's question is so deceitful.
///He and his clients have chosen their moment well. The global triumph of the movie 12 Years A Slave has thrust the sufferings of millions of Africans to the forefront of public attention, awakening many consciences about the crimes committed in the name of European and American civilisation///
So Hastings is suggesting others might be more responsive to the claims, not that the claims process will be 'set off'.
Max Hastings makes no claim to causality between the movie and claims for compensation.
Which is why aog's question is so deceitful.
///He and his clients have chosen their moment well. The global triumph of the movie 12 Years A Slave has thrust the sufferings of millions of Africans to the forefront of public attention, awakening many consciences about the crimes committed in the name of European and American civilisation///
So Hastings is suggesting others might be more responsive to the claims, not that the claims process will be 'set off'.
-- answer removed --
i dont think a monetary reward for this is an appropriate reaction anyway - i mean how much could they give out? to who?
just the people who take them to court?
every single black person?
how much cash is going to make a difference to their lives worthy of the effort it would take to implement?
it would take a phenomenal amount of cash to truly compensate.
they have suffered no monetary losses so if this whole case is truly more of a 'principle' statement, then some other acknowledgement perhaps should be given ... creation of a public commemorative place, a monument, or something that speaks to all ancestors, not just the few that have got greedy.
just the people who take them to court?
every single black person?
how much cash is going to make a difference to their lives worthy of the effort it would take to implement?
it would take a phenomenal amount of cash to truly compensate.
they have suffered no monetary losses so if this whole case is truly more of a 'principle' statement, then some other acknowledgement perhaps should be given ... creation of a public commemorative place, a monument, or something that speaks to all ancestors, not just the few that have got greedy.
divebuddy
But has it?
AOG has said that it has 'Now see what such films...etc'.
But from the report he links to, there is no indication that this is the case.
You are much more on the right lines by adding the caveat 'just might'.
But even so - what's the point? Should films such as this and Django Unchained remain unfilmed?
And furthermore...what's the big deal with these films being made? Off the top of my head, I can name three such films in the past quarter of a decade...Amistad, Django and now 12 Years.
Are 'certain persons' so averse to stories about slavery that we need to limit such films even further?
Three major motion pictures about slavery in a quarter of a century, compared to seven bloody Police Academy films in the same period, and the slavery films get complaints.
For Funks Sake...
But has it?
AOG has said that it has 'Now see what such films...etc'.
But from the report he links to, there is no indication that this is the case.
You are much more on the right lines by adding the caveat 'just might'.
But even so - what's the point? Should films such as this and Django Unchained remain unfilmed?
And furthermore...what's the big deal with these films being made? Off the top of my head, I can name three such films in the past quarter of a decade...Amistad, Django and now 12 Years.
Are 'certain persons' so averse to stories about slavery that we need to limit such films even further?
Three major motion pictures about slavery in a quarter of a century, compared to seven bloody Police Academy films in the same period, and the slavery films get complaints.
For Funks Sake...
sp1814
/// Do you see how people may have assumed that you at least in part, wanted to debate the context of the film: ///
/// "Now See What Such Films As "12 Years A Slave" Sets Off?" ///
/// Not saying that's what you wanted, but I think it's easy to understand how commentators' focus went awry. ///
Only to those who haven't the intelligence to realise that when one puts "NOW SEE" what such films as "12 years a slave" sets off?" automatically directs the reader to what the poster wants the readers to be made aware of.
Example could be this "Now see what Crufts has set off" referring to say a story how some professional breeders are changing certain breeds to the detriment of the dog itself, so as make them more show worthy,
This then would not be a direct criticism of Crufts, but one aimed at the actions of some professional breeders.
/// Do you see how people may have assumed that you at least in part, wanted to debate the context of the film: ///
/// "Now See What Such Films As "12 Years A Slave" Sets Off?" ///
/// Not saying that's what you wanted, but I think it's easy to understand how commentators' focus went awry. ///
Only to those who haven't the intelligence to realise that when one puts "NOW SEE" what such films as "12 years a slave" sets off?" automatically directs the reader to what the poster wants the readers to be made aware of.
Example could be this "Now see what Crufts has set off" referring to say a story how some professional breeders are changing certain breeds to the detriment of the dog itself, so as make them more show worthy,
This then would not be a direct criticism of Crufts, but one aimed at the actions of some professional breeders.
AOG
Tell me what you think this film 'set off'.
Give me evidence that this film set off anything.
If you cannot do this, no problem. Let's not dwell on it. I will accept that you misinterpreted what Max Hastings wrote.
But thanks for raising the subject of slavery once again. I think most people are happy to let it lie...but if you feel the need to bring it up, again and again, then more power to you.
In answer to your question - it's unlikely that reparations are at all likely, or even enforceable legally.
I don't see this country, nor any other, dipping it's hand it it's pocket.
Tell me what you think this film 'set off'.
Give me evidence that this film set off anything.
If you cannot do this, no problem. Let's not dwell on it. I will accept that you misinterpreted what Max Hastings wrote.
But thanks for raising the subject of slavery once again. I think most people are happy to let it lie...but if you feel the need to bring it up, again and again, then more power to you.
In answer to your question - it's unlikely that reparations are at all likely, or even enforceable legally.
I don't see this country, nor any other, dipping it's hand it it's pocket.
Good sound reasoning from both divebuddy and joko, sorry it is not possible to give out two best answers, but art least it has somehow brought the debate back to sanity.
i can not understand why my post has particularly touched a raw nerve in a certain ABer, but perhaps I do but it would not be wise to disclose it.
i can not understand why my post has particularly touched a raw nerve in a certain ABer, but perhaps I do but it would not be wise to disclose it.
Looking at your Crufts analogy, I can see that you're proving then point I have (patiently and valiantly) been trying to get you to understand.
In your analogy, the cause of of the changing breeding patterns is Crufts. In your example, without the annual dog show, there would be no change to breeding patterns right?
Well, think about it - there is no causal link between the release of 12 Year A Slave and this claim for reparation.
There is no causal link.
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see this.
God...I've just browsed Mr Hastings' column. He claims that 12 Years A Slave won 'a stack of Oscars'.
It won two.
Sack the researcher.
In your analogy, the cause of of the changing breeding patterns is Crufts. In your example, without the annual dog show, there would be no change to breeding patterns right?
Well, think about it - there is no causal link between the release of 12 Year A Slave and this claim for reparation.
There is no causal link.
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see this.
God...I've just browsed Mr Hastings' column. He claims that 12 Years A Slave won 'a stack of Oscars'.
It won two.
Sack the researcher.
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