Body & Soul14 mins ago
Agree Or Disagree?
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DB...you may be right but what about all the 1000's that are there now, together with all the other high-powered 4x4's ? If only the answer to this terrible problem was shutting down a few car dealerships ! IS appears to have inherited a large proportion of armoured vehicles that used to belong to the Iraqi Army.
The end of Christianity is not a result of the rise of the Muslim faith.
It is the result of indifference, irrelevance, and the inability of the Church to drag itself away from its twelfth century idolatory, hypocracy, abuse of power, and general serial unpleasantness.
The Muslim faith is not an add-on to life in the way that Christianity is for all but the most devout, it is a way of life. Thereby lies the difference.
I have no axe to grind as an atehist, but i see the decline and eventual extinction of Christianity as inevitable, brought on entirely by its own actions, and more vitally, inactions.
It is the result of indifference, irrelevance, and the inability of the Church to drag itself away from its twelfth century idolatory, hypocracy, abuse of power, and general serial unpleasantness.
The Muslim faith is not an add-on to life in the way that Christianity is for all but the most devout, it is a way of life. Thereby lies the difference.
I have no axe to grind as an atehist, but i see the decline and eventual extinction of Christianity as inevitable, brought on entirely by its own actions, and more vitally, inactions.
Thank you mikey.
I think you would agree that there are varying factors involved here.
Anywhere in the Christian world where life is hard, brutal and short - England eight hundred years ago, Africa now - will see a thriving Christian community.
Here in the civilsed West, regradless of its problems, the need to connect with a 'God' to make people feel better becomes increasingly superflous, and the decline is evident as years go by.
The Catholic church refuses to allow its priests to marry, or to have women priests, and as a result, its seminaries are declining because modern youth is not interested in an unatural life like that.
Part of me takes a degree of satisfaction in watching the church destroy itself with its outdated doctrines and its utter and unassailably arrogant belief that its teachings are the only way for people to live decent lives.
The church's place in the modern world continues to diminish, and instead of a proactive response, addressing the reasons why people's lives do not include a belief in God, they simply continue in their own blind ancient out-of-touch way and like all dionsaurs, they no longer fit, and they will be extinct before much longer.
I think you would agree that there are varying factors involved here.
Anywhere in the Christian world where life is hard, brutal and short - England eight hundred years ago, Africa now - will see a thriving Christian community.
Here in the civilsed West, regradless of its problems, the need to connect with a 'God' to make people feel better becomes increasingly superflous, and the decline is evident as years go by.
The Catholic church refuses to allow its priests to marry, or to have women priests, and as a result, its seminaries are declining because modern youth is not interested in an unatural life like that.
Part of me takes a degree of satisfaction in watching the church destroy itself with its outdated doctrines and its utter and unassailably arrogant belief that its teachings are the only way for people to live decent lives.
The church's place in the modern world continues to diminish, and instead of a proactive response, addressing the reasons why people's lives do not include a belief in God, they simply continue in their own blind ancient out-of-touch way and like all dionsaurs, they no longer fit, and they will be extinct before much longer.
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divebuddy - "I've thought for a long time that absolutely the only good thing about "being religious" or at least "believing" is that it should give you some comfort when facing your own death or that of a loved one."
I think the 'comfort' aspect of religion is a very large part of its appeal - the notion that there is something 'better' waiting when we die, and as you say, our loved ones are 'above' and have not simply ceased to exist.
I think the 'comfort' aspect of religion is a very large part of its appeal - the notion that there is something 'better' waiting when we die, and as you say, our loved ones are 'above' and have not simply ceased to exist.
New Judge - "I quite agree, Andy. However, how do we explain how Islam is thriving in the west?"
i think it is because Islam is thriving everywhere.
As Islamic birthrates continue to rise, and non-Islamic birthrates continue to fall, then simple maths dictates that the Muslim population of the planet will become the majority in an unspecified amount of time - but barring some serious social changes, that is what is going to happen.
i think it is because Islam is thriving everywhere.
As Islamic birthrates continue to rise, and non-Islamic birthrates continue to fall, then simple maths dictates that the Muslim population of the planet will become the majority in an unspecified amount of time - but barring some serious social changes, that is what is going to happen.
Muslim birth rates are falling, though
http://
I believe this is true of the UK too, but can't find the stats at the moment
http://
I believe this is true of the UK too, but can't find the stats at the moment
It isn't a matter of simple numbers, though, Andy. I believe the Muslim population of the UK is about 2% (it may be higher, but it is not significantly so). But attendances at mosques I would think far outweigh those at Christian churches. How often (except when "Songs of Praise" is visiting) do you see full churches for a normal Sunday service? But every scene of the inside of mosques show them packed to the gunwhales.
It is true that Christianity has stalled in its progress (or, more properly, lack thereof). The ridiculous hoo-ha over women bishops demonstrates that perfectly. But it can hardly be said that Islam is a modern, progressive religion.
You said yourself "Here in the civilsed West, regradless of its problems, the need to connect with a 'God' to make people feel better becomes increasingly superflous, and the decline is evident as years go by." So why do Muslims living in the civilised west feel that need to a much greater degree than Christians? I don't have the answer.
It is true that Christianity has stalled in its progress (or, more properly, lack thereof). The ridiculous hoo-ha over women bishops demonstrates that perfectly. But it can hardly be said that Islam is a modern, progressive religion.
You said yourself "Here in the civilsed West, regradless of its problems, the need to connect with a 'God' to make people feel better becomes increasingly superflous, and the decline is evident as years go by." So why do Muslims living in the civilised west feel that need to a much greater degree than Christians? I don't have the answer.
andy-hughes
/// It is the result of indifference, irrelevance, and the inability of the Church to drag itself away from its twelfth century idolatory, hypocracy, abuse of power, and general serial unpleasantness. ///
And as if Islam is living in the 21st century? At least Western Christianity has learnt over the years to stop behaving in a barbaric way, unlike Islam which is still practising their barbarous and savage ways.
If this is your attempt to shy us away from any criticism of Islam, you have failed miserably.
/// It is the result of indifference, irrelevance, and the inability of the Church to drag itself away from its twelfth century idolatory, hypocracy, abuse of power, and general serial unpleasantness. ///
And as if Islam is living in the 21st century? At least Western Christianity has learnt over the years to stop behaving in a barbaric way, unlike Islam which is still practising their barbarous and savage ways.
If this is your attempt to shy us away from any criticism of Islam, you have failed miserably.
As a confirmed and militant atheist, I feel somewhat uneasy about suggesting the following, but here goes anyway ! :::
Rather than castigate and be fearful of the proportions of Muslims that attend their place of worship, wouldn't it be a good idea if more people who profess to call themselves Christians went to church more often. Or ever, in the case of the majority that answer " Well, Christian I suppose" when asked what religion they are.
By the way NJ, according to latest Census, Muslims represent about 4.8% of the population ::::
http://
In other words, a very small minority.
Rather than castigate and be fearful of the proportions of Muslims that attend their place of worship, wouldn't it be a good idea if more people who profess to call themselves Christians went to church more often. Or ever, in the case of the majority that answer " Well, Christian I suppose" when asked what religion they are.
By the way NJ, according to latest Census, Muslims represent about 4.8% of the population ::::
http://
In other words, a very small minority.
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