ChatterBank0 min ago
The Integration Of Muslims....
...will probably be the hardest task" the UK has ever faced.
So says Trevor Phillips, former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
According to a recent survey:
52% of those quizzed disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, and 47% said it was unacceptable for a gay or lesbian person to teach in school.
Only 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria and 4% said they sympathise with people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice.
39% were also found to be of the view that "wives should always obey their husbands".
23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced.
Mr Phillips said "The integration of Britain's Muslims will probably be the hardest task we've ever faced. It will require the abandonment of the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and the adoption of a far more muscular approach to integration."
How do we begin to abandon "the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many" and adopt a “far more muscular approach to integration”?
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So says Trevor Phillips, former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
According to a recent survey:
52% of those quizzed disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, and 47% said it was unacceptable for a gay or lesbian person to teach in school.
Only 34% would tell the police if they thought someone they knew was getting involved with supporters of terrorism in Syria and 4% said they sympathise with people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice.
39% were also found to be of the view that "wives should always obey their husbands".
23% said they would support there being areas of Britain in which Sharia law was introduced.
Mr Phillips said "The integration of Britain's Muslims will probably be the hardest task we've ever faced. It will require the abandonment of the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and the adoption of a far more muscular approach to integration."
How do we begin to abandon "the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many" and adopt a “far more muscular approach to integration”?
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Jim, this is becoming a bit convoluted and is straying from the subject. Regardless of who within other groups said what, the point is Trevor Phillips says that getting Muslims to integrate will probably be the hardest task the UK has ever faced, firstly because of the reluctance of a significant number of them to change their attitudes, and secondly because of the blasé approach of a significant number of the rest of the population who refuse to acknowledge that a problem exists. Quite simply the question is how do we get it across to those people that they are mistaken?
We can only remove the concessions we make and stop pandering to every whim, treat Muslims as we treat everyone else and stop worrying about causing offence, no one has the right not to be offended. We should encourage the imams to re-asses the whole Islamic canon.
But remember, even the holocaust didn't stop Jews from being Jewish.
But remember, even the holocaust didn't stop Jews from being Jewish.
Well, sorry for trying to provide more context to the headline statistics. Granted the post went on a bit long, but then I had 600-odd pages to pore through and learned a fair bit myself along the way.
In answer to "Quite simply the question is how do we get it across to those people that they are mistaken?" I'd say the problem is that both extremes are mistaken. Pretending there is no problem with Islamic integration in the country has been damaging -- pretending that the problem exists with every single Muslim (eg TTT's post) risks being an (almost) self-fulfilling prophecy. Finding the balance between the two extremes is essential, but probably impossible. I'm not sure I can be any less clear than that... I don't know what the answer is. But then that's what Trevor Philips (and his successors) was appointed for, presumably.
In answer to "Quite simply the question is how do we get it across to those people that they are mistaken?" I'd say the problem is that both extremes are mistaken. Pretending there is no problem with Islamic integration in the country has been damaging -- pretending that the problem exists with every single Muslim (eg TTT's post) risks being an (almost) self-fulfilling prophecy. Finding the balance between the two extremes is essential, but probably impossible. I'm not sure I can be any less clear than that... I don't know what the answer is. But then that's what Trevor Philips (and his successors) was appointed for, presumably.
Jim, as you intimate it’s impossible to sort the wheat from the chaff, and we can’t have one rule for one and another for someone else anyway, so surely the only way we can address the problem is to do as Khandro says and// stop pandering to every whim, treat Muslims as we treat everyone else and stop worrying about causing offence.// No?
One huge step would be education. And I mean - we must stop this daft idea of allowing "home schooling" which lets parents take their children out of regular schools, claim they are educating them at home, but in fact sending them to religious schools where the rabbis/imams/priests can indoctrinate them with warped ideas on women, sex, homosexuality and unbelievers (etc). Absolutely nobody ( in England, at any rate) has to account for "home-schooled" children, their standards or their curricula.
High time the government realised that families with tutors and governesses went out with the dinosaurs.
High time the government realised that families with tutors and governesses went out with the dinosaurs.
I agree with Khandro, we should stop treating them as special cases, and stop tiptoeing around them for fear of causing offence fearing the racist card. Muslims are living here now in great numbers, Sharia law is heard in secret. Muslims will not report on a Muslim for fear of retribution. This is a situation that needs scrutiny, their aim is to glorify Islam wherever they live, they do not wish to integrate. All other religions, customs and habits, that are practised in this country are unacceptable to them. We need to promote our way of life, our Britishness and refuse to submit to their demands to further promote themselves. Other religious groups have integrated here without any problem, we should expect that of them living in their adopted country and abiding by their laws and customs.
Askyourgran, i like your views but you have more chance of the Queen coming to tea, why? the doo gooders are protective of a religion that shows a lot of evil, & evil to the people that have welcomed them with open arms with open arms, you have these that's trying to come in from Europe, who are they, no one knows what their background holds, why the L Should we have to put up with that? you can shout until you are blue in the face, but nothing happens, why, "Do Good Brigade" I have often said the Kettle is boiling & it will blow mark my word, you have the evil lot in Rotherham / Rochdale raping kids, what would happen if that was Muslim Children? need I say any more.
It's going to take a lot of resolve and there is going to be a lot of shouting and protesting - but unless we hammer down on this, insist on the things people have mentioned e.g. no sharia, no burkha, etc., everyone adheres vaguely to the accepted norm - then our civilisation is lost. Who has the guts? I do and I counter-argued and fought and educated for years, but I'm only one person. The Government needs to take it on and that is a very unsure proposition. We need government of conviction - just for a change it would be nice if our Govt. were on our side (i.e. the indigenous people who built this country).
## It can only end in tears, probably ours as we have to leave our once free shores. ##
This will never happen, never, but we must keep reminding the Government that its our Country, not the people who have been allowed in.
We make the rules and regulations, and if they don't respect it, they can either not come, or leave.
What embarrasses me though, is we are becoming a laughing stock to other Country's, who cant understand why we put up with the Muslims, on marches, wanting us to change to their laws, letting them build to many Mosque, praying in the streets etc.
This will never happen, never, but we must keep reminding the Government that its our Country, not the people who have been allowed in.
We make the rules and regulations, and if they don't respect it, they can either not come, or leave.
What embarrasses me though, is we are becoming a laughing stock to other Country's, who cant understand why we put up with the Muslims, on marches, wanting us to change to their laws, letting them build to many Mosque, praying in the streets etc.
Plenty of excellent thoughts on how we can achieve a “far more muscular approach to integration” – thank you - but how do we combat "the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many"? While people continue to overlook and excuse the foibles of Islam, instantly branding anyone who criticises its culture as racists or bigots, adopting “a far more muscular approach to integration” will be very difficult to achieve. Any ideas?
Another dimension to integration is not simply with the host nation but in between the immigrants themselves.
I live 35 miles from Stuttgart and in this morning's newspaper is a report that a large and violent street battle took place there last night between Turks and Kurds, and fifty (yes 50 !) police were injured, some seriously, by hurled cobblestones and other missiles trying to quell the riot.
Could it be coming your way soon ?
I live 35 miles from Stuttgart and in this morning's newspaper is a report that a large and violent street battle took place there last night between Turks and Kurds, and fifty (yes 50 !) police were injured, some seriously, by hurled cobblestones and other missiles trying to quell the riot.
Could it be coming your way soon ?
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