Hypothetical Question: If We Had Never Joined Europe …..

[naomi24]

…. and were invited to join now, would you vote ‘Yes’ or ‘No’?

[naomi24]

jno, you ask the questions you want to ask - I'll ask those I want to ask. Most other people here seem to be getting the gist of it.

[naomi24]

Jim, at what point would you consider that a Brexit vote had resulted in international suicide - not that you envisage that happening.

[jno]

most other people are answering exactly as they did on the In Or Out thread. They're not being hypothetical at all, and I don't think you expected or wanted them to be. If you wanted answers "from the outside", you wouldn't ask those who are already inside.

[Old_Geezer]

Roaming costs. There are two national networks plus an international network to pay for, plus more data swopping from one nation to the next. If the higher roaming prices are forced down then the profit has to be made elsewhere, from those who can't afford foreign holidays and business trips probably. I may not know what a valid cost for roaming calls and texts should be, but I know we can expect the normal mobile costs to rise faster than they otherwise might. So I'm unsure this is a wise move by the EU.

[naomi24]

jno, what do you want me to do? Poll the USA? Do give over!

[jim360]

Agreed, OG, that I don't see the worst-case scenarios as at all likely, although you never know (and anyway the question can be flipped around -- what would make me vote to leave?).

I suppose the question is essentially whether leaving the EU is a practical choice or a philosophical one. I think for many it's philosophical.

[naomi24]

Jim, ok. What would make you vote to leave?

[jim360]

I would have answered that at the same time I posed the question, if I had an answer to give beyond "don't know". I think there's a case for saying that, as one of the senior members of (or certainly one of the senior contributors to) the EU, we ought, like a captain or officer, to "go down with the ship" if it really was sinking. Or, put another way, if the EU were bad enough that I would vote to leave it, I don't expect we'd even get the opportunity because it would be about to fall apart anyway.

I guess my basic position is that I don't think what problems the EU has can be solved, or avoided, by the UK just walking away. They might not be solved by staying either, of course, but at least there's a greater chance when you have one voice out of 28 than no voice at all.

[bazwillrun]

its amazing how a simple question is beyond people like jno's comprehension...

why am i not surprised !?

[viv41]

It's a good question.

[jourdain2]

This is the question I ask people if the subject arises (my little badge tends to start a conversation) and it certainly makes them think. My answer is 'No' and I bitterly regret having been duped first time - so I shall try to make redress to future generations.

[Jackdaw33]

Agreed. One of the reasons why I am voting OUT is for the younger generation.

[naomi24]

Jim, //I don't think what problems the EU has can be solved, or avoided, by the UK just walking away. //

We had this conversation a few days ago. If we walked away we would have no reason to attempt to solve the EU's problems. They would no longer affect us.

[jim360]

That's why I included the "or [can't be] avoided" -- as far as I can see, they would still affect us even if we were out.

[mikey4444]

I have had time to think about this and I now realise that, Yes I would vote to join.....not ducking the question enough Naomi ?

[naomi24]

Jim, //as far as I can see, they would still affect us even if we were out. //

Why?

Mikey, //Yes I would vote to join//

Why?

[mikey4444]

None of your business Naomi !

[Orderlimit]

No

[Togo]

//naomi, if you really want to be hypothetical, imagine a hypothetical Britain that hadn't joined Europe. One where (for instance) mobile roaming charges were high because the EU hadn't forced them down last week. //

Haha mobile roaming charges are down thanks to EUSSR. Wow what a life changing achievement for us all. Who cares? Any one? You know, cares enough to vote away your children's and grandchildren's future. 'I did it for you dear they lowered mobile roaming charges, so I thought they must be the option for the future'. It is a derisible notion, but not singular for the Remainians.

[jim360]

Why would EU problems affect us even if we were out?

-- we'd still have to deal with them, to some extent. One need only look at Norway and Switzerland to see two examples of non-EU nations still bound by EU rules, over which they have no say, if they want to be part of the free market (and, presumably, we do want that). Probably the UK-EU negotiations will lead to something different, but it would still be similar in nature.

But even if we left the EU and managed to negotiate a deal with them (or didn't negotiate a deal at all) that meant that EU rules/ problems did not directly affect us, we'd still be affected by whatever happens in the EU. As long as we interact with the EU to *some* extent, how the EU works will matter to us. Perhaps leaving would reduce the scale of the impact of EU rules, regulations and problems to the UK, but we could never remove it entirely.

The situation would be roughly equivalent to a couple divorcing but still living in the same house.