Brexit Won't Happen Before Scotland's Views Are Considered

[Zacs-Master]

What do we think May's tactics are here?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/theresa-may-flies-to-edinburgh-to-tell-scots-that-she-believes-w/

[naomi24]

Jim, ok, you're right and everyone else is wrong. Nevertheless, 'Leave' succeeded. Now pick up your bottom lip before you trip over it.

[THECORBYLOON]

NAOMI I can think AND read. That allows me to differentiate between the words "week" and "year" so perhaps you should take the time to think next time rather than being so quick to insult.

[jim360]

Obvious sarcasm aside, democracies don't work very well if the only way people participate is by voting once every few years. Even the losing side has to keep taking part and making its case. Obviously Leave and Remain are by their very nature incompatible -- and, again, let me repeat that I've never sought a rerun or a rejection or the result, and excepting extraordinary circumstances never will. But that doesn't mean that Remain voters now have to disappear into the mists. Our concerns should still be expressed, and ideally addressed -- just as Leave voters' wishes should be, especially now but even in the event of the other result.

[Zacs-Master]

How would you have them vote Jim?

[naomi24]

THECORBYLOON, no insult. You didn't think. The amount quoted was only part of what we pay to the EU.

[jim360]

"The amount quoted was only part of what we pay to the EU."

Firstly, if I may ask, what was the amount quoted, and secondly what is the total we pay to the EU?

* * *

ZM, I said "if the only way" is by voting. Obviously that still has to happen, but people ought to be more engaged than that surely, both before and after the vote.

[Togo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3692981/How-ve-seen-France-love-torn-apart-hatred-LEO-MCKINSTRY-lived-decade-witnessed-growing-tensions-locals-Muslim-hardliners-despairs-future.html

We probably wont need to invoke Article 50. The whole edifice is about to come crashing down. It will become increasingly more violent.

[anneasquith]

Brexit won no one can argue with the decision, do some people feel politicians behaved badly and misled the electorate, maybe, best just to sit back and watch developments if/when they happen.

[naomi24]

Jim, you're becoming boring now. I have better things to do.

[Zacs-Master]

Ah, well 'engagement' is a completely different thing. I'm pretty sure the majority of the population were engaged,actually.

Your use of the word 'only' suggests you have a different idea on how democracy might work. care to expand?

[jim360]

I was boring a very long time ago, Naomi. All the same, if you are going to insist that the amount quoted ("£350 million/ week") was only part of what we give the EU each week, you ought to back that up, no?

[THECORBYLOON]

I did "think" but you did not "read" or, if you did, you chose to ignore, the word "week" in the NHS poster used by the Leave campaign.

[Zacs-Master]

Jim, any answer to my last q?

[jim360]

I think it's an open question as to how engaged the public ever really is with politics. Quite a small number of people make quite a lot of noise and that always obscures how much the average person really cares about anything. I suspect that a not insignificant chunk of the "Leave" vote was a protest not at the EU but at politics in general, although it's hard to prove that of course so it's just a feeling I have -- and it would be pretty pathetic on my part to assume that all Remain voters went that way because they had carefully considered their vote and all the ramifications thereof.

Not sure how to expand the "different idea on how democracy might work" as you ask, I'm afraid. It feels fundamentally wrong to expect the losing side to keep quiet from now on. Beyond that it's just an aspiration that, whatever else the outcome, Brexit improves the way we do democracy in this country. So far it appears not to have, as Labour have just reverted to tearing themselves apart as usual and the Tories managed to avoid having a new leadership vote, although to be fair that was because Leadsom quit the race early rather than anything Theresa May did. After Brexit, I hope we'd look again at various questions related to the UK's democracy that would become far more urgent and important to resolve.

[jim360]

Also sorry for the delay, ZM, but I was still typing as you asked -- I wasn't dodging anything.

[Zacs-Master]

Thank you for your answer jim most of which I agree with! I would have like a fuller explanation of how you feel democracy would work without a vote but, hey, that's Answerbank.

[jim360]

Well I wouldn't want to abandon voting, I'd just hope that it was just a part of democracy in future. For at least some people, it's probably all of it. And I do include myself in that to an extent. In the EU referendum I tried to engage in discussions before and after, although probably I shouldn't have disappeared from AB for a month before the vote (wouldn't have made a difference to the outcome of course, but I should have done more to put my case all the same). However, in the Scottish Parliament elections this year I did literally just turn up and tick a random box or two.

[-Talbot-]

jim
360But that doesn't mean that Remain voters now have to disappear into the mists.



No they shouldn't, they should put their differences aside, unite with the rest of the country and get on with things. Just like the Tory party has done.

[Zacs-Master]

'However, in the Scottish Parliament elections this year I did literally just turn up and tick a random box or two.'

That was a joke, right?

[jim360]

I gave very little thought to it. The boxes weren't *totally* random but I should have been more engaged than I was.