Film, Media & TV1 min ago
Should Ch4 Have Used This Woman In A Hijab
to front the news of the Nice massacre?
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andy-hughes, you need to understand the difference between the bible and the Koran. The bible, having been written by an assortment of men, allegedly inspired by God, is open to interpretation. The Koran, on the other hand is claimed to be the direct word of God and therefore is not open to interpretation. In fact it is deemed to be wholly beyond criticism.
As for the Westboro Baptist Church, it is a cult of around 50 members I think – and every one of them potty. Not a viable example to cite in any discussion on religion. You may as well bring David Koresh into the debate.
Ellipses, try as you may, I am never ‘offended’. That word is over-used and misused with alarming regularity. Channel 4 may say what it likes – and I am at liberty to disagree with it – and with you.
I have other things to do now. I’ll check back later and if there’s anything of greater interest going on I’ll add my two-pennyworth.
As for the Westboro Baptist Church, it is a cult of around 50 members I think – and every one of them potty. Not a viable example to cite in any discussion on religion. You may as well bring David Koresh into the debate.
Ellipses, try as you may, I am never ‘offended’. That word is over-used and misused with alarming regularity. Channel 4 may say what it likes – and I am at liberty to disagree with it – and with you.
I have other things to do now. I’ll check back later and if there’s anything of greater interest going on I’ll add my two-pennyworth.
Naomi - //andy-hughes, you need to understand the difference between the bible and the Koran. The bible, having been written by an assortment of men, allegedly inspired by God, is open to interpretation. The Koran, on the other hand is claimed to be the direct word of God and therefore is not open to interpretation. In fact it is deemed to be wholly beyond criticism. //
Says who?
If I, as an individual, choose to 'interpret' the words of either tome, or take either literally. who is going to say that I can't? Free will means anyone can take a text literally, twist it from here to wazoo, or ignore it completely.
Your apparent assertion that the Bible can be changed about and the Koran cannot may be an idealistic attitude, but it has no place in the real world, where people use either or neither to justify the things they do and say.
//As for the Westboro Baptist Church, it is a cult of around 50 members I think – and every one of them potty. Not a viable example to cite in any discussion on religion. You may as well bring David Koresh into the debate.//
Your opinion once again - that they are 'potty' which is an offensive way to dismiss a section of people when they simply choose to believe differently to you.
As for the size of their church - I was not aware that the validity of a belief system was directly proportional to the numbers of people who follow it - that knocks Christianity out of the park for a start! And Jesus began with a mere twelve - which must make his church even less valid or important, if we are playing by numbers.
You speak with the tone of someone who knows what she is talking about - but the content of your posts are constantly open to dismantling, which I am delighted to continue to do.
Says who?
If I, as an individual, choose to 'interpret' the words of either tome, or take either literally. who is going to say that I can't? Free will means anyone can take a text literally, twist it from here to wazoo, or ignore it completely.
Your apparent assertion that the Bible can be changed about and the Koran cannot may be an idealistic attitude, but it has no place in the real world, where people use either or neither to justify the things they do and say.
//As for the Westboro Baptist Church, it is a cult of around 50 members I think – and every one of them potty. Not a viable example to cite in any discussion on religion. You may as well bring David Koresh into the debate.//
Your opinion once again - that they are 'potty' which is an offensive way to dismiss a section of people when they simply choose to believe differently to you.
As for the size of their church - I was not aware that the validity of a belief system was directly proportional to the numbers of people who follow it - that knocks Christianity out of the park for a start! And Jesus began with a mere twelve - which must make his church even less valid or important, if we are playing by numbers.
You speak with the tone of someone who knows what she is talking about - but the content of your posts are constantly open to dismantling, which I am delighted to continue to do.
fiction-factory - //Naomi seems unable to explain why removing Fatima's hijab (presumably just in case this was an IS atrocity) would have been an appropriate gesture for the victims (including the Muslim victims) //
Perhaps she is realising the flimsy premise of her position, and the impossibility of arguing it reasonably.
If someone is going to 'make a point' to allow for sensitivities (I am smiling as I type that!) - then the only way it will work is if the individual makes clear what they are doing, and why.
Simply leaving off a garment would say nothing to anyone - so unless the journalist was able to say "I am absenting my normal dress in order to accommodate the potential sensibilities of any non-Muslims who may be watching ..." or something along those lines, such a 'gesture' would be completely pointless.
Oh, well there we are then - pointless it would have been - which leaves aside the massive implications of potential intolerance heaped on millions of unknowing viewers - and that is something that Naomi is determined to fail to grasp.
Perhaps she is realising the flimsy premise of her position, and the impossibility of arguing it reasonably.
If someone is going to 'make a point' to allow for sensitivities (I am smiling as I type that!) - then the only way it will work is if the individual makes clear what they are doing, and why.
Simply leaving off a garment would say nothing to anyone - so unless the journalist was able to say "I am absenting my normal dress in order to accommodate the potential sensibilities of any non-Muslims who may be watching ..." or something along those lines, such a 'gesture' would be completely pointless.
Oh, well there we are then - pointless it would have been - which leaves aside the massive implications of potential intolerance heaped on millions of unknowing viewers - and that is something that Naomi is determined to fail to grasp.
It is you and your ilk that 'fails to grasp' that Islam is a foul, backward ideology that has no place in this country.
You seem incapable of empathy towards the victims of this disgusting, death cult. Perhaps, if and when, one of your own family becomes a victim, you'll 'get it'.
As mikey, accidentally, said, 'no-one knows the religion of other news readers'. With Muslims committing daily acts of terror around the world, it's the height of insensitivity for C4 to employ a member of said cult who, if Elipsis is to be believed, insists on identifying herself as such.
You seem incapable of empathy towards the victims of this disgusting, death cult. Perhaps, if and when, one of your own family becomes a victim, you'll 'get it'.
As mikey, accidentally, said, 'no-one knows the religion of other news readers'. With Muslims committing daily acts of terror around the world, it's the height of insensitivity for C4 to employ a member of said cult who, if Elipsis is to be believed, insists on identifying herself as such.
Svejk - //It is you and your ilk that 'fails to grasp' that Islam is a foul, backward ideology that has no place in this country.
You seem incapable of empathy towards the victims of this disgusting, death cult. Perhaps, if and when, one of your own family becomes a victim, you'll 'get it'.
As mikey, accidentally, said, 'no-one knows the religion of other news readers'. With Muslims committing daily acts of terror around the world, it's the height of insensitivity for C4 to employ a member of said cult who, if Elipsis is to be believed, insists on identifying herself as such. //
Not sure if your post is directed towards me - ?
I would have to say that you are confirming your apparent inability to distinguish between a miniscule minority of murerders who are using their twisted views of Muslim doctrine to justify their dreadful crimes - and the billions majority of Muslims who live a peaceful life and harm no-one.
Your apparent lackof grasp of that difference is only matched by the dreadful venom with which you condemn an undeserving section of the world population.
You seem incapable of empathy towards the victims of this disgusting, death cult. Perhaps, if and when, one of your own family becomes a victim, you'll 'get it'.
As mikey, accidentally, said, 'no-one knows the religion of other news readers'. With Muslims committing daily acts of terror around the world, it's the height of insensitivity for C4 to employ a member of said cult who, if Elipsis is to be believed, insists on identifying herself as such. //
Not sure if your post is directed towards me - ?
I would have to say that you are confirming your apparent inability to distinguish between a miniscule minority of murerders who are using their twisted views of Muslim doctrine to justify their dreadful crimes - and the billions majority of Muslims who live a peaceful life and harm no-one.
Your apparent lackof grasp of that difference is only matched by the dreadful venom with which you condemn an undeserving section of the world population.
Naomi - //Andy-hughes, rude? Not at all. It’s simply not possible to discuss religion with someone who decides he may interpret it as he, personally, sees fit. Religion doesn’t work that way. //
I think it absolutely works that way!!!
That is the entire reason why religion causes the problems is does - because each and every one of us is able and entitled to see religious tomes and doctrine in a way that suits them.
That ranges from the Muslim terrorist, who believes he has a divine right and responsibility to murder unbelievers - right through to someone like me, who disbelieves and ignores all religion - and every shade and variance in between.
That is exactly the point of tolerance and intolerance - the entire thrust of this debate.
To advise that you cannot debate with me because I spin it as I choose, means you cannot debate with anyone, because we all do it - including you!
I think it absolutely works that way!!!
That is the entire reason why religion causes the problems is does - because each and every one of us is able and entitled to see religious tomes and doctrine in a way that suits them.
That ranges from the Muslim terrorist, who believes he has a divine right and responsibility to murder unbelievers - right through to someone like me, who disbelieves and ignores all religion - and every shade and variance in between.
That is exactly the point of tolerance and intolerance - the entire thrust of this debate.
To advise that you cannot debate with me because I spin it as I choose, means you cannot debate with anyone, because we all do it - including you!
Here we see it plainly:
Naomi>To put it frankly, people who are upset or personally affected by the appalling actions of Islamists in Europe can do without a woman dressed in Muslim garb being shoved in their faces reporting it directly after the event.
Svejk> With Muslims committing daily acts of terror around the world, it's the height of insensitivity for C4 to employ a member of said [disgusting death] cult
Religious hatred, stirred up by MacKenzie's article, exactly as C4 News posted in their response to the article. People who claim not to think Muslim=Islamist=terrorist, posting things that clearly show they do think exactly that. Not much left to debate, really.
I'm glad that we live in a free society, and hope it stays that way.
Naomi>To put it frankly, people who are upset or personally affected by the appalling actions of Islamists in Europe can do without a woman dressed in Muslim garb being shoved in their faces reporting it directly after the event.
Svejk> With Muslims committing daily acts of terror around the world, it's the height of insensitivity for C4 to employ a member of said [disgusting death] cult
Religious hatred, stirred up by MacKenzie's article, exactly as C4 News posted in their response to the article. People who claim not to think Muslim=Islamist=terrorist, posting things that clearly show they do think exactly that. Not much left to debate, really.
I'm glad that we live in a free society, and hope it stays that way.
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