Police Stifle Istanbul Gay Pride Rally

[vetuste_ennemi]

Erdogan's very popular in Germany and Holland, I understand.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40395472

[Togo]

That was a little harsh Mamy.... alluding that Ummmm only gleans her "news" here on the Bank.

[Mamyalynne]

I said no such thing put your spoon down.

[sp1814]

Indeed mikey4444 - bigotry and hatred shows its ugly face once more.

[-Talbot-]

jim360
Meanwhile there's also been a "purge" of gay men in Chechnya, apparently, but not a whisper of it on AB at all -- at least none that I've noticed. But the gay community has sat up and taken notice, even if you haven't seen that.

I think you aren't allowing for what people say and do when you aren't listening.





Did you know what the dominant religion in Chechnya was when you posted that, Jim?

[sp1814]

-Talbot-

It's Islam isn't it?

Is Russia mostly an Islamic state? Would that explain these stories?

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/russia-passes-gay-gag-bill-will-become-law110613

http://www.vocativ.com/07-2013/russia-arrests-four-tourists-for-spreading-gay-propaganda-to-nations-youth/

http://www.ibtimes.com/gay-pro-gay-athletes-tourists-will-face-arrest-sochi-2014-winter-olympics-russian-lawmaker-says

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-videotaped-bullying-gays/25062657.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/12/russian-gay-man-torture_n_3263406.html

I thought that the dominant religion in Russia was the Russian Orthodox church?

[naomi24]

Mamyalynne at 20:04, I have no idea what you’re talking about but you appear to have grabbed the wrong end of the stick.

What a wonky world this is. Here we have avid supporters of gay rights (one at least of whom doesn’t appear to know his Orthodox from his Islam) doing their best to point the finger at anything other than Islam. That, I believe, is what TTT was referring to at 19:28. Case rested I think.

[sp1814]

What's that naomi24?

Surely I was referring to the hate-filled bigots in Turkey?

The point I was making about Chechnya is that anti-gay sentiment is a Russia-wide issue, which is sanctioned by Islamic leaders in Chechnya and the Russian Orthodox Church elsewhere in Russia.

[naomi24]

SP, Surely I was referring to the hate-filled bigots in Turkey?

No, you weren’t. Every one of your links refers to Russia which is predominately Orthodox. Let’s hear your criticism of Islam.

[sp1814]

naomi24

Actually - taking TTT's post at 19:28, you could easily swap it around.

it is when the right wing brigade almost soil their underwear over the latter and ignore the former.

If it's the Russian Orthodoxy prompting the imprisonment of gay people, the Right tend to fall back on, "It's their country and their rules. You can't force western liberalism on them.'

I'm sure you've heard that one, haven't you?

[sp1814]

naomi24

Scan up.

Look at my post at 21:54.

You see where I initially referred back to mikey4444's post from earlier in the evening, where we are both talking about the situation in Istanbul?

Then I went on to comment on -Talbot-'s post.

I think you may have conflated both.

[naomi24]

SP, I’ve heard it but not in abundance. Most people, it seems, condemn Russia’s stance on gay issues and have no hesitation in saying so. Now let’s hear your criticism of Islam.

[goodgoalie]

But of course, Naomi, nobody is now supposed to criticise anything about Islam. That's 'Islamophobia'.

[naomi24]

That's the word!

[sp1814]

naomi24

That's what I was referring to in my post at 21:54 was about. I deplore Islam's attitude to gay people. However, it is Islamic teaching that I have an issue with, same as I have with Christian tenets. However, I cannot bring myself to tar all those who have been brought up either as Christian or Muslim (or Hindu or Sikh), because I've met so many who are thoroughly decent people who reject some of the more extreme teachings of their 'chosen' faith.

But more than any other faith, Islam needs to be dragged towards liberalism that Christianity has (partially) now found itself.

[scooping]

As it's the third year in a row this happened it doesn't seem much of a news story to me. And oh so predictable that the usual suspects have a go at Christian churches like the Eastern Orthodox when, in this instance, it has absolutely nothing to do with them. All this while Christians are persecuted in the most vile ways in EVERY muslim country. Beheadings anyone? A sense of scale might help.

[goodgoalie]

sp, of all the religions you mention (and one could add many more), only Islam's holy book says 'death to the non-believer'. Now, do you think that is something one of your 'thoroughly decent people' ought to be believing?

[naomi24]

SP, Nevertheless, as is evidenced by your multiple links to stories about Russia, your playing field remains uneven.

Scooping, precisely.

[sp1814]

scooping

In fairness, Chechnya was introduced into the debate by -Talbot-, so it was only fair to point other anti-gay policies which have been promoted in Russia.

That's how this entered the thread.

[douglas9401]

This is like a refresher for my knot tying badge back in the day. :)

[sp1814]

goodgoalie

From Deuteronomy 17:

2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.