ChatterBank1 min ago
This Sounds More Like It?
43 Answers
Bullish May draws plan for ‘no deal’ and prepares to spend billions on new border controls to keep British trade flowing if Brussels talks fail
A dose of reality finally. There will be no deal, ask pretty much any leaver. One of the reasons many voted to leave was because they were fed up with the bullying and intransigent EU. Add to that all the 26 Nations will need to approve and a desire to punish us it and it's common sense that we will end up walking away.
Better to spend money shoring up our borders than pay for Junkers bar bill.
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A dose of reality finally. There will be no deal, ask pretty much any leaver. One of the reasons many voted to leave was because they were fed up with the bullying and intransigent EU. Add to that all the 26 Nations will need to approve and a desire to punish us it and it's common sense that we will end up walking away.
Better to spend money shoring up our borders than pay for Junkers bar bill.
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They must have been working on no deal for a while to come out with policy documents.
I just wish they had done it earlier. Barnier and Junket have bullied enough.
The UK have by all accounts been very reasonable but they (EU) have and will not be happy unless we allow them to dictate exactly what they want. As far as I have seen the EU have made no compromises but we have bent over backwards to accommodate.
Get tough UK. If the EU actually want a fare deal for everyone they will eventually come to the negotiating table wit realistic expectations.
I just wish they had done it earlier. Barnier and Junket have bullied enough.
The UK have by all accounts been very reasonable but they (EU) have and will not be happy unless we allow them to dictate exactly what they want. As far as I have seen the EU have made no compromises but we have bent over backwards to accommodate.
Get tough UK. If the EU actually want a fare deal for everyone they will eventually come to the negotiating table wit realistic expectations.
The thing is that the only direction May has been moving in the last few months is *away* from the "no deal" rhetoric and towards more and more compromises -- or, perhaps, concessions, depending on your point of view. I suspect that this is the same. It's noteworthy for example that in the same speech May also mentioned the possibility, or perhaps the likelihood, of the EU Courts having jurisdiction in the UK in the two years following the end of the negotiations, which is certainly a concession.
For example, here's the Guardian's spin on the same speech:
https:/
(I say "spin" deliberately, because it's clear that both the Guardian and the Mail have cherry-picked the speech to make the points they want to.)
It's difficult, therefore, to know exactly what May is planning. I suspect she's still working hard to maintain a balance between hard-line Brexiters and hard-line Remainers, whether or not that's possible, and I think that either side would be wrong to assume that they now have her wholehearted support.
For example, here's the Guardian's spin on the same speech:
https:/
(I say "spin" deliberately, because it's clear that both the Guardian and the Mail have cherry-picked the speech to make the points they want to.)
It's difficult, therefore, to know exactly what May is planning. I suspect she's still working hard to maintain a balance between hard-line Brexiters and hard-line Remainers, whether or not that's possible, and I think that either side would be wrong to assume that they now have her wholehearted support.
Mrs May's poodle scuttles off to Brussels again :::
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Who wants a bet that he will come home on Friday, empty-handed again ?
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Who wants a bet that he will come home on Friday, empty-handed again ?
As I have stated many timed ruing Brexit debates on here, and elsewhere, no-one knows what it going to happen, so everything is simple (and pointless!) speculation pretending to be news.
As I have also stated, trade is not complicated, if you have a product, and a customer, you can do a deal. Just because we are talking nations and not individual traders does not alter that basic concept, it is merely the red tape that needs to be cut.
And as I have also said, the EU has a vested interest in not only scaremongering, but in making our exit as difficult as it can, because it needs to avoid the risk of any other member state seeing the UK succeed outside the EU, and deciding to join it, which would make the EU collapse like a line of dominoes.
As I have also stated, trade is not complicated, if you have a product, and a customer, you can do a deal. Just because we are talking nations and not individual traders does not alter that basic concept, it is merely the red tape that needs to be cut.
And as I have also said, the EU has a vested interest in not only scaremongering, but in making our exit as difficult as it can, because it needs to avoid the risk of any other member state seeing the UK succeed outside the EU, and deciding to join it, which would make the EU collapse like a line of dominoes.
Hold on a minute, it is the EU telling us there will be no deal, not a 'Bullish' Maytelling them.
They told us a fortnight ago. May is merely sheepishly accepting it.
// At a press conference in Brussels Mr Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, hit out at Britain’s negotiating tactics and said there had been no “decisive progress” on key issues.
Warning that the UK could be heading for the exit door without any deal at all, Mr Barnier said there had been too little progress on the cash divorce bill for him to recommend starting trade talks. //
To present us getting no deal as somesort of victory is most peculiar.
They told us a fortnight ago. May is merely sheepishly accepting it.
// At a press conference in Brussels Mr Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, hit out at Britain’s negotiating tactics and said there had been no “decisive progress” on key issues.
Warning that the UK could be heading for the exit door without any deal at all, Mr Barnier said there had been too little progress on the cash divorce bill for him to recommend starting trade talks. //
To present us getting no deal as somesort of victory is most peculiar.
Spin spin spin. It just depends on what side of the coin you like depends on how you perceive the same news.
However May and her team have rightly been trying to negotiate with the EU. If, as has been the constant case, the EU don't want a reasonable negotiated settlement then you have to accept what is and was perhaps always apparent.
Now is the time to put your bards on the table and say sort yourself out and come back if you want a deal.
However May and her team have rightly been trying to negotiate with the EU. If, as has been the constant case, the EU don't want a reasonable negotiated settlement then you have to accept what is and was perhaps always apparent.
Now is the time to put your bards on the table and say sort yourself out and come back if you want a deal.
I think it remains to be seen who has most to lose. After all, the EU has all of the trade deals with the rest of the world in place already; they'll still be in a fairly strong position following Brexit in that respect at least, whereas we are going to be starting from essentially a blank sheet of paper (or even WTO rules, which as have been pointed out repeatedly are not exactly favourable).
The thing is -- how many steps backward does May, do Johnson, Fox and Davis, do even other hardline Brexiters *at the forefront of the negotiations* need to make, before those who say that "the EU has more to lose" start to sit up and take notice, and wonder if that is really the case?
The thing is -- how many steps backward does May, do Johnson, Fox and Davis, do even other hardline Brexiters *at the forefront of the negotiations* need to make, before those who say that "the EU has more to lose" start to sit up and take notice, and wonder if that is really the case?
Return of sovereignty is worth a sizable blip in the economy. That the EU has trade deals in place yet refuse to let the UK start any tells you a lot about their attitude re negotiation. As does refusing the discuss important issues before their priority desired issues, demands that are causing delays, are agreed, and a refusal to accept the offers made so far also says a lot.
Worth is not purely a matter of economics. Economic drops can be fixed. Presently all I see is time wasting, a refusal by the EU to progress, and continual blaming the UK without any evidence. If someone says something often enough with conviction folk can tend to believe it, regardless. It's almost as if the EU wants the talks to go nowhere so the UK may as well plan for the eventuality. The EU is running out of time to decide to negotiate and agree.
Worth is not purely a matter of economics. Economic drops can be fixed. Presently all I see is time wasting, a refusal by the EU to progress, and continual blaming the UK without any evidence. If someone says something often enough with conviction folk can tend to believe it, regardless. It's almost as if the EU wants the talks to go nowhere so the UK may as well plan for the eventuality. The EU is running out of time to decide to negotiate and agree.
It's worth bearing in mind that the reason the EU isn't talking trade yet is because we have yet to come to agreement on citizens' rights and a financial settlement. The UK agreed to take the negotiations in that order months ago.
I haven't had a chance to follow this story in detail,but my understanding was that the government was making preparations for all scenarios. Which is certainly a reasonable thing to do, but seems less newsworthy to me.
I haven't had a chance to follow this story in detail,but my understanding was that the government was making preparations for all scenarios. Which is certainly a reasonable thing to do, but seems less newsworthy to me.
//It's worth bearing in mind that the reason the EU isn't talking trade yet is because we have yet to come to agreement on citizens' rights and a financial settlement. The UK agreed to take the negotiations in that order months ago. //
True, but isn't that in itself being intransigent. We (stupidly IMHO) agreed to it and that is one example of us bending backwards. However the EU have not justified the figure at all. It is pulled out the hat. They want to punish us in any way they can. Time to just walk.
True, but isn't that in itself being intransigent. We (stupidly IMHO) agreed to it and that is one example of us bending backwards. However the EU have not justified the figure at all. It is pulled out the hat. They want to punish us in any way they can. Time to just walk.
Well, both sides seem to acknowledge that the UK owes *something* due to outstanding commitments. The reason that Brussels has been evasive about the amount is, pretty obviously, in order to highball and see how much above their minimum they can get. Which is exactly what you would expect someone to do in this circumstance.
It's not pretty, no. But it is the path we have chosen.
It's not pretty, no. But it is the path we have chosen.
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