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Words Fail Me........
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Is it bad that I want to murder the scum that did this?
Is it bad that I want to murder the scum that did this?
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I'd like to torture them first Tora. If that makes me a bad person....
13:53 Wed 18th Oct 2017
TTT - //right so we've established that only vegetarians are allowed to be outraged at the senseless killing of endangered species, lest they be labelled as a hypocrite. //
I am not sure who the 'we' is that you are referring to, but speaking personally, which is the only way I can speak, I have not 'established' anything at all.
My point, which you seem determined to miss, is that if you are going to post your angst about the slaughter of an animal for economic reasons, and you are a meat eater, then you are a hypocrite.
// Right oh! I assume by that token actual vegetarians are also hypocrites if they indulge in killing of any animal? //
You can assume whatever you like TTT, that's the beauty of free speech. On this occasion, I prefer not to assume anything, but don't let me stop you.
I am not sure who the 'we' is that you are referring to, but speaking personally, which is the only way I can speak, I have not 'established' anything at all.
My point, which you seem determined to miss, is that if you are going to post your angst about the slaughter of an animal for economic reasons, and you are a meat eater, then you are a hypocrite.
// Right oh! I assume by that token actual vegetarians are also hypocrites if they indulge in killing of any animal? //
You can assume whatever you like TTT, that's the beauty of free speech. On this occasion, I prefer not to assume anything, but don't let me stop you.
TTT - // right so just to clarify, if a vegetarian exterminates some rats, they are a hypocrite? //
Again, you appear determined wilfully to miss the point I am making.
If a vegetarian, or indeed a neat-eater, exterminates rats, that does not make them a hypocrite.
If they then post an anguished protest about the extermination of, say, badgers, then that makes them a hypocrite.
I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.
Again, you appear determined wilfully to miss the point I am making.
If a vegetarian, or indeed a neat-eater, exterminates rats, that does not make them a hypocrite.
If they then post an anguished protest about the extermination of, say, badgers, then that makes them a hypocrite.
I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.
-- answer removed --
A-H
"If a vegetarian, or indeed a neat-eater, exterminates rats, that does not make them a hypocrite."
"If they then post an anguished protest about the extermination of, say, badgers, then that makes them a hypocrite. "
Your first paragraph.......I don't understand or indeed see the relevance of......
if a vegetarian or a meat eater exterminates rats....that doesn't make him a hypocrite..........LOl......I agree.
Now to your second paragraph:
If they then get all upset about the killing of badgers....then that does make them a hypocrite.....LOL.....I agree.
So...........what point are you making?
"If a vegetarian, or indeed a neat-eater, exterminates rats, that does not make them a hypocrite."
"If they then post an anguished protest about the extermination of, say, badgers, then that makes them a hypocrite. "
Your first paragraph.......I don't understand or indeed see the relevance of......
if a vegetarian or a meat eater exterminates rats....that doesn't make him a hypocrite..........LOl......I agree.
Now to your second paragraph:
If they then get all upset about the killing of badgers....then that does make them a hypocrite.....LOL.....I agree.
So...........what point are you making?
Sqad - I am happy to reiterate my point, because it remains consistent -
If you are seriously upset about animal cruelty, to the point of posting an emotional OP on here, then that is perfectly fine, no problem.
However, if you are protesting about the death of an animal which was killed for economic reasons, and you eat slaughtered animals which are similarly killed for economic reasons, then that makes you a hypocrite, because you are protesting about one form of animal slaughter, while tacitly condoning and perpetuating another.
So, as I have said several times previously when this issue is debated - I did my position is consistent - you are only entitled to occupy the moral high ground about the slaughter of animals, if you don't eat them.
My illustration to which you refer is very simple -
If you are a vegetarian and you kill a rat, or rats, for whatever reason, then there is no conflict of morality - rats are not killed for food, no-one eats them, so the vegetarian aspect is not relevant.
However, if you then protest about the killing of badgers, which are also not eaten, then you are a hypocrite because you are sanctioning and undertaking the killing of one species on the basis that it can be seen as vermin, and then protesting about the killing of another species, even though that is being killed as vermin in an identical manner.
It's simply about having the courage of your convictions.
If you feel strongly enough - and TTT clearly does - to post about the slaughter of an animal for economic reasons, then you cannot perpetuate the slaughter of another animal for exactly the same reason, because that is hypocrisy.
I abhor the slaughter of animals without good reason, but as a meat eater, I don't shout about it, because as a meat eater, I would be a hypocrite, and that is what I believe TTT to be, and I have stated that, and backed it up with the same argument several times to several different people.
Hopefully I have made myself clear, if not, please come back and request clarification of anything I have said which does not make sense.
That of course does not prevent anyone from wholeheartedly disagreeing - but I would expect their argument to be laid out as mine has been - that is how debate works.
If you are seriously upset about animal cruelty, to the point of posting an emotional OP on here, then that is perfectly fine, no problem.
However, if you are protesting about the death of an animal which was killed for economic reasons, and you eat slaughtered animals which are similarly killed for economic reasons, then that makes you a hypocrite, because you are protesting about one form of animal slaughter, while tacitly condoning and perpetuating another.
So, as I have said several times previously when this issue is debated - I did my position is consistent - you are only entitled to occupy the moral high ground about the slaughter of animals, if you don't eat them.
My illustration to which you refer is very simple -
If you are a vegetarian and you kill a rat, or rats, for whatever reason, then there is no conflict of morality - rats are not killed for food, no-one eats them, so the vegetarian aspect is not relevant.
However, if you then protest about the killing of badgers, which are also not eaten, then you are a hypocrite because you are sanctioning and undertaking the killing of one species on the basis that it can be seen as vermin, and then protesting about the killing of another species, even though that is being killed as vermin in an identical manner.
It's simply about having the courage of your convictions.
If you feel strongly enough - and TTT clearly does - to post about the slaughter of an animal for economic reasons, then you cannot perpetuate the slaughter of another animal for exactly the same reason, because that is hypocrisy.
I abhor the slaughter of animals without good reason, but as a meat eater, I don't shout about it, because as a meat eater, I would be a hypocrite, and that is what I believe TTT to be, and I have stated that, and backed it up with the same argument several times to several different people.
Hopefully I have made myself clear, if not, please come back and request clarification of anything I have said which does not make sense.
That of course does not prevent anyone from wholeheartedly disagreeing - but I would expect their argument to be laid out as mine has been - that is how debate works.
Just to be clear I DO NOT support harming in any way the poachers who killed the rhino. It would do no good at all. The way forward is to stop the demand for Rhino , Elephant and other endangered animal products.
There was a program on TV a while back where former Rhino poachers had become game wardens . They were stopping others from following their former path, the reward was that a tourist trade then developed that provided a continuous income . The former poachers learned that Rhino were far more valuable alive than dead.
That is surely the answer to this problem rather than advocating more violence?
There was a program on TV a while back where former Rhino poachers had become game wardens . They were stopping others from following their former path, the reward was that a tourist trade then developed that provided a continuous income . The former poachers learned that Rhino were far more valuable alive than dead.
That is surely the answer to this problem rather than advocating more violence?
Horrible, unfortunately many of the poachers are very poor people and if you ask them what's more important,an animal or their kids starving....
A lot of the time it is a fusion of trophy hunters,poor poachers and "Mr Wong" as eddie so quaintly put it althogh "Mr wong could have easily been "Mr Patel" "Mr Mohammed" "Mr Tarkwell" Or "Leeroy jones" if you see my point.
We have to deal with this at a grass roots level, educate and give the native poachers a way to survive and progress without having to stoop to this level then when the big hunter come, there is no one no longer to take them to these noble almost extinct creatures of wonder.
A lot of the time it is a fusion of trophy hunters,poor poachers and "Mr Wong" as eddie so quaintly put it althogh "Mr wong could have easily been "Mr Patel" "Mr Mohammed" "Mr Tarkwell" Or "Leeroy jones" if you see my point.
We have to deal with this at a grass roots level, educate and give the native poachers a way to survive and progress without having to stoop to this level then when the big hunter come, there is no one no longer to take them to these noble almost extinct creatures of wonder.
Jahulaye - // ... these noble almost extinct creatures of wonder. //
Your use of language is interesting, and indicates another dichotomy in the way humans view animals.
An almost extinct rhino is a 'creature of wonder', but a cockroach or a rat is ugly vermin.
It comes down to our perceptions of the animals around us.
TTT gets seriously het up about the slaughter of a rhino, but apparently doesn't mind a bog-standard cow (un-threatened as a species, and sadly not accorded the 'beautiful nobility' etc etc of the rhino), and therefore, it seems, its slaughter is not worth protesting over.
It is hypocrisy, whichever way you look at it.
Your use of language is interesting, and indicates another dichotomy in the way humans view animals.
An almost extinct rhino is a 'creature of wonder', but a cockroach or a rat is ugly vermin.
It comes down to our perceptions of the animals around us.
TTT gets seriously het up about the slaughter of a rhino, but apparently doesn't mind a bog-standard cow (un-threatened as a species, and sadly not accorded the 'beautiful nobility' etc etc of the rhino), and therefore, it seems, its slaughter is not worth protesting over.
It is hypocrisy, whichever way you look at it.
andy-hughes, //An almost extinct rhino is a 'creature of wonder', but a cockroach or a rat is ugly vermin.//
You don’t appear to have thought that statement through. When was the last time you heard of rhinos infesting human habitation and transmitting harmful disease? Cockroaches and rats are ugly vermin.
You don’t appear to have thought that statement through. When was the last time you heard of rhinos infesting human habitation and transmitting harmful disease? Cockroaches and rats are ugly vermin.
andy hughes, // TTT gets seriously het up about the slaughter of a rhino, but apparently doesn't mind a bog-standard cow ///
TTT like everyone else, is aware that cows are farmed for food and they are slaughtered humanely. Like TTT I get seriously het up when a rhino – or any other animal in the wild – is not only slaughtered but mutilated solely for financial gain. Nothing hypocritical about that. It's horrendous!!
TTT like everyone else, is aware that cows are farmed for food and they are slaughtered humanely. Like TTT I get seriously het up when a rhino – or any other animal in the wild – is not only slaughtered but mutilated solely for financial gain. Nothing hypocritical about that. It's horrendous!!
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