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since it's becoming increasingly accepted that gender is less about chromosomes, appearance or reproductive ability but more a matter of state of mind not necessarily requiring reassignment intervention (and the gender recognition act 2004 is likely to be amended to reflect this), are the "X-X" denizens of the Kenwood Ladies Pond Association being a tad unreasonable?
since it's becoming increasingly accepted that gender is less about chromosomes, appearance or reproductive ability but more a matter of state of mind not necessarily requiring reassignment intervention (and the gender recognition act 2004 is likely to be amended to reflect this), are the "X-X" denizens of the Kenwood Ladies Pond Association being a tad unreasonable?
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I'll give one away for you.
The second image - the one you described as being feminine, pixie - was born male.
//It's much more than that, kromo. Dressing as a man and striding around, wouldn't make me one.//
Not biologically, no. But if you did it convincingly enough, people would interact with you as if you were a man - because you present as one. Biological sex is a description of your genitalia (which a select few will ever get to inspect), and "gender" is not simply an interchangeable term meaning biological sex. "Gender" is a way in which society interacts with you.
The second image - the one you described as being feminine, pixie - was born male.
//It's much more than that, kromo. Dressing as a man and striding around, wouldn't make me one.//
Not biologically, no. But if you did it convincingly enough, people would interact with you as if you were a man - because you present as one. Biological sex is a description of your genitalia (which a select few will ever get to inspect), and "gender" is not simply an interchangeable term meaning biological sex. "Gender" is a way in which society interacts with you.
What I find really sad is peoples attitudes to those they see at not the 'norm'.
i'm not just talking about people on here but people out there too, what is really frightening is if they have kids they are probably passing this attitudes onto their children, so we never move on.
And before anyone jumps down my throat this is not aimed at anyone its just a general comment. Its not just transgender, but homosexuality, race, religion and obesity to name just a few.
i'm not just talking about people on here but people out there too, what is really frightening is if they have kids they are probably passing this attitudes onto their children, so we never move on.
And before anyone jumps down my throat this is not aimed at anyone its just a general comment. Its not just transgender, but homosexuality, race, religion and obesity to name just a few.
//How us that ever going to be a healthy reason?//
That's another question, I suppose. But at present it is the only way of realistically getting gender recognition, so it's the only option available to a lot of people if that's important enough to them.
//the psychology and lack of experience soon gives it away.//
How do you know? How would you know? What "psychology" and experience do all women on earth have in common?
That's another question, I suppose. But at present it is the only way of realistically getting gender recognition, so it's the only option available to a lot of people if that's important enough to them.
//the psychology and lack of experience soon gives it away.//
How do you know? How would you know? What "psychology" and experience do all women on earth have in common?
None of the others are relevant here, Islay. Each to their own. What I find objectionable is being bullied into lying on behalf of others (and we all know it is a lie). If it was a genuinely needed operation, it would work, even if nobody else was aware of it.
There are no other mental conditions I can think of that we treat by exacerbating them. This does affect everyone, not just those involved. It would be a waste of time otherwise. And we are basically just experimenting on vulnerable people, offering them something they can never have.
It isn't currently the PC way of looking at it- and I am all for "different". Just the deception surrounding it does nobody any favours.
There are no other mental conditions I can think of that we treat by exacerbating them. This does affect everyone, not just those involved. It would be a waste of time otherwise. And we are basically just experimenting on vulnerable people, offering them something they can never have.
It isn't currently the PC way of looking at it- and I am all for "different". Just the deception surrounding it does nobody any favours.
Upbringing and expectations mostly, kromo. Natural sexism, in life, in the media- all the things you grow up with, which is too late to experience by the time you are 18. Also hormones and biology. Current theories on X and Y chromosomes are showing there are far more complicated differences between men and women than we have ever found before. Turning a penis inside out just doesn't cut it...
Another word and pronoun is fine. Just please stop pretending they are women.
Another word and pronoun is fine. Just please stop pretending they are women.
//That’s my choice – a choice that is ignored in favour of those who demand rights that they are not entitled to.//
Who are you to decide who is and isn't entitled to which rights? Men who transition are legally permitted - after meeting a number of stringent requirements - to legally change their gender, even to have their birth certificates altered accordingly. That would imply they are entitled to some rights, wouldn't it?
Who are you to decide who is and isn't entitled to which rights? Men who transition are legally permitted - after meeting a number of stringent requirements - to legally change their gender, even to have their birth certificates altered accordingly. That would imply they are entitled to some rights, wouldn't it?
//Krom, but my choice is ignored ..... and I'm a woman //
In what way is it a choice?
When you venture outside your house, there's a world out there full of people who aren't you. When you go out, your sharing society with all of them under differing terms.
Personally, as I've said before, I loathe children. If I were in charge, they would be banned from just about every public place. But describing that as a 'choice' is irrational, because children exist and they are part of society - I have to put up with them whenever I go out and they have to put up with me. I can 'choose' not to share public spaces with them all I want, but it will not stop them existing or going where they are allowed to go.
In what way is it a choice?
When you venture outside your house, there's a world out there full of people who aren't you. When you go out, your sharing society with all of them under differing terms.
Personally, as I've said before, I loathe children. If I were in charge, they would be banned from just about every public place. But describing that as a 'choice' is irrational, because children exist and they are part of society - I have to put up with them whenever I go out and they have to put up with me. I can 'choose' not to share public spaces with them all I want, but it will not stop them existing or going where they are allowed to go.
naomi24
//SP, whatever they are they're not women//
Yes they are.
They're trans women.
As a woman, I would've thought you'd support them, rather than putting up unnecessary barriers to their happiness.
I can totally understand your point about creeps and perverts who want to enter female toilets and changing rooms for nefarious reasons, but to extrapolate that to include trans women...well, that's just reductive.
//SP, whatever they are they're not women//
Yes they are.
They're trans women.
As a woman, I would've thought you'd support them, rather than putting up unnecessary barriers to their happiness.
I can totally understand your point about creeps and perverts who want to enter female toilets and changing rooms for nefarious reasons, but to extrapolate that to include trans women...well, that's just reductive.
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