Ireland Abortion

[spathiphyllum]

good news:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/01/apprehension-on-all-sides-before-launch-of-irish-abortion-services



"Ireland is poised to roll out its first regular abortion services in the coming weeks in the wake of the referendum vote to lift the country’s near-total ban on abortion."

[jim360]

Perhaps not -- but then again, abortions don't stop happening just because they are illegal. Better to legalise, regulate, and ensure that the woman's health is protected -- as opposed to, say, requiring desperate women to try all sorts of shady practices to avoid the stigmas that pregnancy can sometimes bring.

[Rockrose]

That case was atrocious had an abortion been performed when she presented at hospital that lady would still be alive

[youngmafbog]

Finally some common sense.

Making it illegal only forced women to risky back street abortionists or the the UK Mainland. It didnt stop it.

Now women have the choice for the procedure to be carried out in saftley in their own country. And it is their choice not that of men.

[Kromovaracun]

It's good news. Criminalising abortion is a senseless policy.

[Peter Pedant]

// My OMG was at Peter!!!//
OMG back to Um !!! !

well that is the level of repartee on AB when it is in full swing....and hey! it is today !!!!!!!!

and yeah Umm - they do shoot doctors in the land of the free dont they? (*)

(*) yes an intentional steal from the sixties film with Gig Young and Susanna York.....and yes Umm I fear to report there are sites out there inciting protesters to shoot doctors working in abortion clinics

[Ric.ror]

That should, of course be, NOT ON HERE

[jackthehat]

As with all 'matters of conscience'......
If you don't agree with it......don't do it.

You don't agree with Abortion? Don't have one.
You don't agree with 'gay marriage'? Don't get 'gay married'.

Allow those who are making their own personal decisions the freedom to do so, and certainly don't try to restrict someone's rights based on the supposed utterings of beardy (male) religious-types.

[ummmm]

I haven't got a clue what PP is talking about.

[ummmm]

In England you have to have the approval of two doctors to get an abortion. It's not dished out, you have to explain yourself.

[Ellipsis]

> abortions don't stop happening just because they are illegal. Better to legalise, regulate ...
> Making [abortions] illegal only forced women to risky back street abortionists
> If you don't agree with [abortion]......don't do it.

These arguments don't quite stack up because the word that was the illegal act, "abortion", could be replaced by a word that is still an illegal act , e.g. "hard drugs", "rape", "murder", etc. and it becomes nonsense, as in:

> rapes don't stop happening just because they are illegal. Better to legalise, regulate ...
> If you don't agree with rape......don't do it.

There has to be a deeper underlying meaning behind the legalisation, which is a final acceptance that the rights of the woman outweigh the rights of the foetus in some defined circumstances.

[jim360]

I suppose that's true, but then again it's sort of implicit in those arguments that abortion is a different thing from, say, rape. The limits on abortion -- most notably the time limit of 24 weeks* -- suggest that the rights of the woman are paramount up until the point where the foetus could feasibly stay alive outside the womb, which to me makes sense; in essence the foetus is only being kept alive because it's attached to an advanced life-support machine.

I suppose that, by the same token, ending the life of a person who is only alive because they are being given artificial life support is usually not regarded as murder. *That's* a far closer parallel than rape, murder, or drug addiction.

[jno]

always good to see the DUP outraged that NI might end up with different customs rules from the rest of Britain but only too happy for it to have different abortion rules. Maybe this will help soften the hard border.

[Ellipsis]

Good example Jim. I find it jarring that abortions are relatively easy to come by in the UK (~200,000 per year), but seeing yourself out of the door after a long and happy life that's now in a tragic state requires a trip to Switzerland ...

[kvalidir]

I also believe you should be able to see yourself out ellipsis but abortion is a whole other issue and one with it's own complexities, although people's problems with both stem from the fear of taking away power from God ( who ordained neither to be okay) and placing it with man, so it's hierarchical and patriarchal in essence.

[ichkeria]

Exactly jno

[maggiebee]

I do not believe in abortion except in exceptional circumstances (eg rape). Seems it is used these days as a method of contraception. If women want control of their bodies why don't they use contraception - or is it a case of "it won't happen to me".

[Ellipsis]

> I also believe you should be able to see yourself out ellipsis but abortion is a whole other issue

That's an opinion. As another opinion, those who think that life starts e.g. at conception would see both abortion and euthanasia as the taking of a life.

[andy-hughes]

I believe the concept of abortion to be one of the most difficult moral dilemmas anyone would ever have to address, and I am seriously grateful never to have been the position of having to make the choice necessary.

I do firmly believe that the right to carry and deliver a baby, or not, can only rest with the woman concerned, and the notion that (usually male) strangers want to enforce their own moral view on people when they will never see, much less experience, the results of their moralising, is repugnant and has no place in a civilised society.

[Ellipsis]

> the notion that strangers want to enforce their own moral view on people when they will never see, much less experience, the results of their moralising, is repugnant and has no place in a civilised society.

Ireland had an abortion law. They've changed it but they still have one. The UK has an abortion law too. We changed ours too, in 1967. These laws, both before and after they were changed, are the acts of strangers enforcing a moral view on people when they will never see, much less experience, the results. They are entirely laws based on morals. So do we not live in a civilised society? Because if we take what you are saying at face value, there should be no abortion law because the woman should be free to do as she wishes.

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // They are entirely laws based on morals. So do we not live in a civilised society? Because if we take what you are saying at face value, there should be no abortion law because the woman should be free to do as she wishes. //

I believe that morality is a personal choice, and I do believe that a woman should be free to do as she wishes - to impact on her life otherwise is not the behaviour of a civilised society.