Whipped For Loving..

[fender62]

religion of peace..mmm the face of islam you do not see on bbc, i wonder why..guess trump is more news worthy, considered a racist..but hey whats happening is ok though.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7306503/Woman-breaks-publicly-whipped-100-times-having-pre-marital-sex-Indonesia.html#comments

[andy-hughes]

spath - // I personally think, if you think your society is better than another because of cultural practises then you're a tad racist. If you think differently then fair enough i accept that. //

I know I am sounding like a cracked record here, but can you not understand that racism and culture are two separate entities?

I have nothing against these people because of their colour, that is why I am not a racist.

I am against them because of the way they behave which is neither originated or governed by their colour - race is not the issue here, I really don't know how else to explain it.

And by the way, you can't be 'a tad racist' - racism is an absolute, it has no degrees, someone or something is racist or it or they is or are not.

[anotheoldgit]

spathiphyllum
/// It's bordering a fine racist line where you imply that "We are better than them"... Especially if you come out an say it like that. ///

Ah! I wondered how long it would be before someone picked up on this, but judging by most of the answers on this barbarism, I think that puts us all accused of racism, since "we are better or superior to them".

But then the expert on the definition of Racism states,

"It has nothing to do with racism!!!
I am not condemning these people because they have brown skin".

/// racism:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. ///

See nothing about brown skins there.

[ludwig]

//I personally think, if you think your society is better than another because of cultural practises then you're a tad racist //

Classic play of the R word trump card to invalidate the opposing view. I think spath's just a wind up merchant to be honest.

[spathiphyllum]

"Spath, it is the law there. Sharia Law. A few people standing around shouting isn't going to stop it."

Exactly. So follow the law of your land.

AOG, i am surprised you also see the racism angle.

Andy, you can't take a step down a rung of the ladder, then say, i'm not on that ladder. The culture of a race is what is up for discussion here. Naomi fully said "we are better than them" and you implied it. That is stating your own race is superior to the race that carries this culture.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes
/// I just hope that you never find yourself innocently transgressing in a country where violence is the standard punishment - and you remember that living in a civilised country as we do, gives you the luxury of ignoring injustice elsewhere. ///

Well there you have it, they are clearly uncivilised, then being civilised as we are, that makes us better or indeed superior to them, which in turn by the definition of racism, that also makes you a racist Andy.

[fender62]

it's not about race, it's about a cultural norm to whip people who do not tow there religious laws, we have muslims in the uk, but they are not allowed to whip people who do not conform to there view is islam.
it's just plain barbaric, same with saud cutting off hands and heads.
we do not burn people at the stake anymore..why because it's wrong.
edicts in the koran are backward and need to move with the times.

[spathiphyllum]

To separate race from culture is ludicrous. You can't offend "Afro-Caribbean culture" and then be like.. i'm not racist, that's a culture not a race.

Like the old, it's a religion not a race argument.

A specific race holds a culture, to offend one you're offending the other.

Fender, I'm certain you've not read the Quran. So does that mean you're talking solely from prejudice opinions from other people?

[fender62]

spath, i have read the koran twice, two different versions..islam is not a race, bit like baptists are all white.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - // Well there you have it, they are clearly uncivilised, then being civilised as we are, that makes us better or indeed superior to them, which in turn by the definition of racism, that also makes you a racist Andy. //

That's an interesting way of arriving at an unacceptable insult AOG.

The connection that you, not I, make that I appear to be saying that my race is superior to theirs, and therefore I am a racist, is as spurious as it is offensive.

I have said repeatedly, and will do again, that my attitude to violence is not, and never has been governed by the ethnicity of the perpetrator(s). Violence visited on weak and defenceless people by stronger amoral people is wrong, no matter where or when it is committed, and that has been my position throughout this thread, and throughout my time on the AB.

It's ironic AOG, over all the years and all our interaction, I have never once directly called you a racist. You have accused me of it many times, but it has never been true.

And now, today, directly, after all your endless bleating about Site Rules, you break one to insult me grievously in this manner.

We have two choices - you can apologise for your grossly offensive remark, and withdraw it for the falsehood that it is, or I can report you to the Editor and withdraw from debating directly with you forthwith.

Your response is awaited.

[andy-hughes]

spath - // A specific race holds a culture, to offend one you're offending the other. //

That may be so - but Islam is not a race, and it is Islamic law that underpins this violence.

You can't keep moving the goal posts to shore up your increasingly bizarre pronouncements.

[spathiphyllum]

When you have to justify it by saying "Islam is not a race" is when you've understood that you've entered a grey area.

[fender62]

spath, there are muslims of all colours and creeds, it's a religion thats not defined by race, but faith in a book, and that book dominates there life in all things, there are more extreme elements that take it literally
and do some horrendous things in its name, thinking there god loves them more for it, there allegiance is to islam and Muhammad as it's creator, he is considered the last prophet god spoke to.

[andy-hughes]

spath - // When you have to justify it by saying "Islam is not a race" is when you've understood that you've entered a grey area. //

I am not 'justifying' anything, I am pointing out yet another simple fact of which, judging by your references to racism, you appear ignorant of.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//... we have imported peoples from twelfth century backwards barbaric lawless countries//

These countries are not barbaric because they're "lawless", they're barbaric because their law is.

PS: wrong century. Try seventh.

[andy-hughes]

vetuste - // These countries are not barbaric because they're "lawless", they're barbaric because their law is. //

If the world actually ran on the Jack-and-Jill level on which you think it does - everything is either this, or it's that, then it would be a much simpler and easier place to live in.

But the world is actually so complex and difficult that none of us have the answers, and your constant pat, this-or-that, childishly simple responses to complex difficult and life-changing situations is frankly becoming seriously tedious.

[hereIam]

Thick, uneducated peasants in my opinion and of course we are far better than them, BUT I would love to see the birch brought back here for thugs who terrorise the elderly, use sheer violence when robbing people in their own homes and bully and intimidate people with mental health issues and learning difficulties, as they did with a young woman and her Mum some years back, causing the Mum to take both their lives in desperation. They are the type that deserved to be whipped not people who love, as fender says. Of course I know birching won't be brought back - more's the pity.

[naomi24]

VE is right. These countries are barbaric because their law is barbaric.... and that, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who has followed these discussions, will not change.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - // VE is right. These countries are barbaric because their law is barbaric.... and that, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who has followed these discussions, will not change. //

I think that's putting the cart before the horse.

People are barbaric long before they evolve as a society sufficiently to understand the concept of laws, and putting them in place.

The laws are barbaric, because the people are barbaric, not the other way around.

[andy-hughes]

hereIam - // Thick, uneducated peasants in my opinion and of course we are far better than them, BUT I would love to see the birch brought back here for thugs who terrorise the elderly, use sheer violence when robbing people in their own homes and bully and intimidate people with mental health issues and learning difficulties, as they did with a young woman and her Mum some years back, causing the Mum to take both their lives in desperation. They are the type that deserved to be whipped not people who love, as fender says. Of course I know birching won't be brought back - more's the pity. //

A trenchant view expressed, but the remainder of your post has nothing whatsoever to the discussion on the OP.

[naomi24]

Haha! Heaven forbid that someone other than AH should post something unrelated to the topic, hereIam! It’s a laugh a minute round here. :o)