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Bemoaning why Labour lost last Thursday, he speaks very staccato, why doesn’t he just slither away , he’s a has been who should stand trial at The Hague for war crimes, the bloke makes my teeth itch!
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I think ludders that they ARE interested in power but are clueless about how to achieve it. This was always my fear about Corbyn as a labour supporter at the time when he was parachuted into the leader’s position in 2015.
I look at Corbyn-leaning Labour supporting friends on Facebook who almost seem to be blaming the thick northerners for not voting for all those lovely freebies. “Hell hath no fury like a blue collar worker scorned” (ie by the delay over Brexit) which is a pretty appalling thing to say - by a perfectly nice person!
Labour should look at how the Tories do it: in 2015 the Lib Dens took the flak for austerity and were more or less obliterated: now in 2019 Labour, who were never even in government, seemed to get the rest of the blame.
And the party which was the author of it now sits with an 80-seat majority!
There are lessons in self preservation and reinvention there.
I look at Corbyn-leaning Labour supporting friends on Facebook who almost seem to be blaming the thick northerners for not voting for all those lovely freebies. “Hell hath no fury like a blue collar worker scorned” (ie by the delay over Brexit) which is a pretty appalling thing to say - by a perfectly nice person!
Labour should look at how the Tories do it: in 2015 the Lib Dens took the flak for austerity and were more or less obliterated: now in 2019 Labour, who were never even in government, seemed to get the rest of the blame.
And the party which was the author of it now sits with an 80-seat majority!
There are lessons in self preservation and reinvention there.
// I look at Corbyn-leaning Labour supporting friends on Facebook who almost seem to be blaming the thick northerners for not voting for all those lovely freebies //
Yes, there are an awful lot of 'Turkeys voting for Christmas' memes bouncing around the lefty echo chamber at the moment.
This is the feeling I get from Corbyn/McDonnell reaction to the defeat. A refusal to acknowledge all of the reasons for the defeat.
Phrases like 'We failed to communicate the policies sufficiently' and 'We won the argument', are just politician speak for 'The voters were too stupid to understand our glorious vision'.
Yes, there are an awful lot of 'Turkeys voting for Christmas' memes bouncing around the lefty echo chamber at the moment.
This is the feeling I get from Corbyn/McDonnell reaction to the defeat. A refusal to acknowledge all of the reasons for the defeat.
Phrases like 'We failed to communicate the policies sufficiently' and 'We won the argument', are just politician speak for 'The voters were too stupid to understand our glorious vision'.
2016 voters voted out of EU.
2017 election all parties promised to respect that decision. May made a hash of the election and both Labour and the LibDems gained seats.
2019 election, voters were offered a different choice:
Tories offered Hard out.
LibDems offered Hard In.
Labour offered another referendum which the majority of the electorate didn’t want (because they had already voted).
The result, the two parties who had changed their positions to not respect the result did considerably worse than last time. So why did the Labour Party change its position? They did so from pressure by the metropolitan Blair leaning Remain MPs. That change was the cause of their huge defeat. Their constituents in the north had voted leave, and the Labour Party were not offering that as an option this time, so they switched their votes.
2017 election all parties promised to respect that decision. May made a hash of the election and both Labour and the LibDems gained seats.
2019 election, voters were offered a different choice:
Tories offered Hard out.
LibDems offered Hard In.
Labour offered another referendum which the majority of the electorate didn’t want (because they had already voted).
The result, the two parties who had changed their positions to not respect the result did considerably worse than last time. So why did the Labour Party change its position? They did so from pressure by the metropolitan Blair leaning Remain MPs. That change was the cause of their huge defeat. Their constituents in the north had voted leave, and the Labour Party were not offering that as an option this time, so they switched their votes.
I think the jury’s out mind you on whether the turkeys will have been proved to have voted for Christmas: but that doesn’t excuse the other side of it.
Many of us wanted a hung Parliament to save us from Brexit and Corbyn. But the disappointment was somewhat eased by Corbyn’s demise. It’s rather disgraceful that he’s not gone yet. I feel he won’t be able to hang on as long as he thinks he will.
Many of us wanted a hung Parliament to save us from Brexit and Corbyn. But the disappointment was somewhat eased by Corbyn’s demise. It’s rather disgraceful that he’s not gone yet. I feel he won’t be able to hang on as long as he thinks he will.
Labour's left/right issues are simply an underdamped pendulum swing. The party definitely did go right of the established centre under Blair. Eventually it got pulled back, but too far as an overreaction. It'll swing less left eventually and hopefully get to it's true home, left of centre position again. But it needs to learn that it's there representing the will of the people, not trying to control normal citizens, telling them what they should choose, or trying to make them carry papers to justify themselves to the authorities.
I listened last night to the ‘Thick Northerner’ label we here have aquired,well not here but places like Workington in Cumbria, Blyth in Northumberland who dared to vote Tory after over 100 years of Labour, who do these people think they are???? ( the haters)
They just don’t get it that Labour was heading down the pan with Corbyn at the helm
They just don’t get it that Labour was heading down the pan with Corbyn at the helm
That was one factor gromit. There were two others.
1) Corbyn is unpopular with just about everyone in the country except the Labour party membership. (Note that the Labour party membership is a tiny fraction of people that would actually vote Labour).
2) No-one believed the fantastical wish list of a manifesto that they came up with, or the claim that it could be paid for by the top 5% of earners.
Corbyn etc are in denial about those other two things, as you seem to be, instead blaming the whole thing on Brexit - and of course a hostile media. If it had been anyone else but Corbyn, offering realistic policies things could well have been different.
1) Corbyn is unpopular with just about everyone in the country except the Labour party membership. (Note that the Labour party membership is a tiny fraction of people that would actually vote Labour).
2) No-one believed the fantastical wish list of a manifesto that they came up with, or the claim that it could be paid for by the top 5% of earners.
Corbyn etc are in denial about those other two things, as you seem to be, instead blaming the whole thing on Brexit - and of course a hostile media. If it had been anyone else but Corbyn, offering realistic policies things could well have been different.
Ick,
Funnily enough, the election result is good in the fact that the Brexit debate is now finally over. Labour were clueless and divided and unable to make any sense of it. So now it is off the table, they can move on.
And the result is good because Corbyn is going. A complete liability, a non leader, muddled approach and not at all politically astute.
My only fear is they will elect someone equally as bad. There does not seem to be many (if any) good candidates for the post.
Funnily enough, the election result is good in the fact that the Brexit debate is now finally over. Labour were clueless and divided and unable to make any sense of it. So now it is off the table, they can move on.
And the result is good because Corbyn is going. A complete liability, a non leader, muddled approach and not at all politically astute.
My only fear is they will elect someone equally as bad. There does not seem to be many (if any) good candidates for the post.
Ich,
// If it had been anyone else but Corbyn, offering realistic policies things could well have been different. //
In 2017 the Corbyn led Labour Party gained 30 seats. They had the same leader, but a more focused and believable manifesto and said the would respect the Leave result. The Policies and the Brexit stance changed this time, and the result this time was vastly different.
// If it had been anyone else but Corbyn, offering realistic policies things could well have been different. //
In 2017 the Corbyn led Labour Party gained 30 seats. They had the same leader, but a more focused and believable manifesto and said the would respect the Leave result. The Policies and the Brexit stance changed this time, and the result this time was vastly different.
gromit: "The result, the two parties who had changed their positions to not respect the result did considerably worse than last time. So why did the Labour Party change its position? They did so from pressure by the metropolitan Blair leaning Remain MPs. That change was the cause of their huge defeat." - yes that's part of it but add to that the Marxism, free everything, £tn spending promises, huge tax hikes for everyone, anti semitism and pro terrorism and wallop!
