Pub? Or School?

[mushroom25]

plenty of coverage -
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/autumn-coronavirus-lockdown-shut-pubs-22452005
https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/01/fears-second-lockdown-autumn-spike-cases-13068146/
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/coronavirus-pubs-closed-schools-reopen-a4514171.html

looks like there may need to be some hard choices. is it more important to maintain a semblance of societal normality and keep pubs open? or is education more important?

[woofgang]

I don't see anywhere where that is identified as the "either/or"

[naomi24]

//is it more important to maintain a semblance of societal normality //

It shouldn't be 'either/or'. Just maintain a semblance of societal normality. Leave the pubs and restaurants open and get the children back to school.

[jourdain2]

That's more or less what I'd say, too, naomi.

[Purist]

How does this fit in with "Eat out August" where we are supposed to be eating out more to support restaurants, pubs and take away's. I think the government has lost the plot.

[naomi24]

Purist, The situation changes which is why guidelines and rules change.

[dave50]

Both, get kids back to school and leave everything else as it is, we can't put life on hold forever.

[youngmafbog]

As Naomi 10:28.

[sherrardk]

We need to just get on with things. My kids are due to go back to school in September but the new rules that they have outlined all seem a bit bonkers and unworkable (and it’s only a small school), not to mention how the buses are going to cope (currently one double decker). No idea what mad cap plans the sixth form college and uni are going to have in place though.

[teacake44]

Open the schools, and close McDonalds, because that's were they all end up going when school is out at 4pm. :0)

[archibaldy]

The pubs weren't allowed to open in Leicester as they had extended lockdown and that obviously didn't stop the spike there.

So school/pub is a false choice in my opinion. I totally understand the trade-off requirement but how about actually the government put some real work into finding out the environments where spikes are happening and why, and better controlling those.


Factories, shops, pubs, beaches, religious gatherings, airports, schools - all these places have their own demographic and dynamics and some will need controlling more than others but I don't feel enough work is being put in to understand this.

[ichkeria]

Plainly if it WAS a choice I think it’s what you’d call a “nobrainer”

[mushroom25]

// I don't feel enough work is being put in to understand this. //

we are still in the learning stage of this novel infection. for instance it was only recently discovered that the virus thrives in chilled environments such as food processing and packaging plants.

[archibaldy]

// we are still in the learning stage //

I totally understand that and agree, it will take a very long time to fully get a handle on risks to the individual and types of environment, but I don't think enough work has been put in yet to come up with such a choice as pub or schools - are pubs particularly high risk of local spikes as compared to factories? Do factories need better controlling? I certainly don't know and if the government don't know either let's get some boots on the ground finding out or this is going to be an absolute mess. We were supposed to have a "world beating" contract tracing app and we don't even have a rubbish one.

[mushroom25]

// are pubs particularly high risk of local spikes as compared to factories? //

yes, because of the broad mix of clientele. see this:-
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/health/coronavirus-covid19/2020/07/31/16-cases-of-coronavirus-linked-to-stone-pub/

[ichkeria]

“ the virus thrives in chilled environments”

That really shouldn’t be a great surprise

[Jackdaw33]

Try as I might I simply cannot see how closing pubs will allow schools to reopen. I was the government's staunchest defender but I am beginning to have my doubts.

[woofgang]

jackdaw, its fake news. Its clear that choices will need to be made but nowhere is it being said that the choice is pubs/schools

[mushroom25]

// nowhere is it being said that the choice is pubs/schools //

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/01/pubs-england-close-control-coronavirus-adviser-graham-medley

Professor Medley, on the R4 Today programme, said
"I think we’re in a situation whereby most people think that opening schools is a priority for the health and wellbeing of children and that when we do that we are going to reconnect lots of households."
"And so actually, closing some of the other networks, some of the other activities may well be required to enable us to open schools. It might come down to a question of which do you trade off against each other and then that’s a matter of prioritising, do we think pubs are more important than schools?"

[archibaldy]

// yes, because of the broad mix of clientele.//

Of course people transmit in pubs - my question is are pubs overall more dangerous than increased measures at factories?

If pubs are the source why did Leicester get a massive spike when all the pubs were shut?

[archibaldy]

Okay after reading the news link pub/school is an example, not a stark choice and it comes back to my original point - trade-offs will be required but I don't think enough is known about all types of environment to accurately rate them for risk against each other.